Upcoming tariffs on vehicles made outside the US
- Thread starter AndrewTK
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What I have brought up are verifiable facts. Facts don't care if you think they're talking points. They simply are. If facts bother you, and you think they're talking points because they differ with your personal views, then perhaps understanding that facts have nothing to do with political parties is something you should consider learning about.
Shamefully brought up veterans? There's nothing shameful about cuts to the VA while it has increasing enrollment and firing veterans that are employed by the VA and the government. What's shameful is the protections that enabled them to get government jobs are being removed. I'm advocating for more and better veteran care. Are you not? Maybe you need to recalibrate your idea of shame?
I'm not saying anything that experts haven't already said. Warren Buffet, who usually doesn't make political comments, has said the same thing about them. Warren Buffet seems to know a thing or two about economics.
I don't care about reading the room...just like facts don't care about your feelings. Please do ignore, I'm 100% okay with that.
My positions above respond to the policy advancements of the current administration - not sure what your philosophy is but I’m not arguing against your position.
To this point I have not seen any analysis around tariffs (agricultural or otherwise) that considers US Supply vs. demand capacity, like with avocados, and proposes to tariff only when people have not yet exhausted domestic production. If such a thing is out there please link me to it; it would be very informative to my position. I think the tariffs against Mexico (for instance) are broad and will equally affect the first and last avocado.
As for nationalizing production. There’s a fear that the result of a global free market is that no production will take place in the US at all, or that our economy will cease to deliver value somehow. That is not what is predicted to happen in a global free market, and it is not what has happened since we adopted something like a free market about 60 years ago. In 1960 our GDP was about $3.5 trillion; in 2023 it was about $22 trillion. Obviously we are not losing relevance on the global scene, even if some manufacturing is happening elsewhere.
What happens in a free trade market is that production occurs where it makes the most sense to occur, all factors considered. These factors would include some that might keep the production domestic, including national security needs, resource availability, and plain old personal preference.
We can force-move production to domestic through policy where it would otherwise locate elsewhere. This is much of what the administration is trying to do. There will be unpalatable consequences, one being inflation if we are not the lowest cost producer of the thing being produced.
As example (ignore accuracy of the numbers and look at the concept):
- an iPhone assembled in China costs $1000
- we could assemble the same iPhone in the US, but it would cost $1200 because our labor and admin costs are higher
- to force-move production to the US, we tariff the iPhone by 20%. That way the $1000 Chinese iPhone also costs $1200 and there is no longer an incentive to assemble it in China
- Now, whether we sell the iPhone assembled in China or the one assembled in the US, it costs $1200 either way.
- New price of $1200 vs. old price of $1000 = inflation
One other thing - in that example the federal government might still want us to sell the Chinese phone because they get the $200 tariff revenue if we do (paid by the customer buying the phone), and Apple’s US employees get it if we sell the domestically assembled one. That’s an angle on this nobody is saying much about.
I realize it is tempting to reject expertise, experience, and logic in favor of propositional fact situations that feel better. That sort of rejection is very much in fashion. You can lace your argument with ad hominem and call me “people like you” and speak disparagingly of economists because you don’t like what they say. It won’t matter.
Larger discussion, but if you ask me - rather than jury rigging the economy so that typewriter repairmen can still make money even though the world has left typewriters behind, I think we should spend our riches retraining and redeploying our population to the skill sets that are in need today.
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Who care about those fake “facts” from “corruption agenda”.
Who care about “feeling”. That feeling in last 4 years was exposed
We know and okay 100% to ignore those fake “facts”
you don’t need to worry Our facts may not your facts
live with your “facts” I work in the cycling industry, plenty of experience with how tariffs work. The importer has to pay them 60 days after the product lands. If you have a deposit on a car that is arriving after April 2nd Toyota North America or the dealer whichever way they make it work will have to pay the tarif.
Bought my wife a car this weekend and had an interesting convo with a manager and salesman where they brought up the tariffs.
They said that Toyota has indicated to them that Toyota will initially eat ten percent of it but they can’t have some vehicles increase by fifteen percent while other vehicles are minimally impacted. So the plan they have been told is that Toyota is looking to raise all prices a little to help cover costs of the higher tariff vehicles. At the end of the day there will be some price separation based on what models are built where but they will minimize it by adjusting prices across all lines to cover the remaining 15 percent.
Obviously this is from one manager at a dealership so take it with whatever confidence but it was interesting to hear at least.
They said that Toyota has indicated to them that Toyota will initially eat ten percent of it but they can’t have some vehicles increase by fifteen percent while other vehicles are minimally impacted. So the plan they have been told is that Toyota is looking to raise all prices a little to help cover costs of the higher tariff vehicles. At the end of the day there will be some price separation based on what models are built where but they will minimize it by adjusting prices across all lines to cover the remaining 15 percent.
Obviously this is from one manager at a dealership so take it with whatever confidence but it was interesting to hear at least.
Who care about those fake “facts” from “corruption agenda”.
Who care about “feeling”. That feeling in last 4 years was exposed
We know and okay 100% to ignore those fake “facts”
Our facts may not your facts
There is no "your facts", "our facts", or "fake facts", there are simply facts. The sooner you realize that the quicker you'll be able to make intelligent decisions. Until then I'll chalk up this response to the inability to articulate something based on content other than your feelings. Better luck next time.
Unfortunately, I know exactly what you're talking about; one of the local bike shops had to deal with this and it reduced them to nearly going out of business. All they do now is setup and repair. It's a shame.
Yeah well, thanks, I think, for making my point with a more comprehensive description of societal ills before the era of North American free trade came to pass. It's human nature to normalize and idealize that with which we are familiar, hence every generations inevitable nostalgia boom that kicks up around middle age. Again, I'm not making any claims to expertise in the area of trade or tariffs, it just strikes me as a puzzling exercise to direct the US back into a peak industrial society out of belief that there was a mythical, Leave it to Beaver golden age in the 50's, 60's and 70's when everyone was happy and fulfilled. As you point out, this world probably never existed in the first place and my contention is that even as a utopian dream this would not be at all a satisfactory standard of living for a large number of people living in America in 2025 who are used to access to a high level of choice and consumption at low prices (not saying this is a good or bad thing, just that is what it is). I'd also like to know, if we're going to go through all this effort of raising costs and geopolitical reorientation to onshore all of our supply chains what the plan is to protect blue collar workers against automation (and AI), which arguably, has been as significant a factor in de-industrialization as globalization (citation: Do Not Blame Trade for the Decline in Manufacturing Jobs).
Mods, can we please lock this thread? Or at least move it to Off-Topic? The discussion has long since gotten unrelated to anything Land Cruiser related, and this isn't the place to argue politics or economic theory at length.
If we're going to argue, let it be about whether the estimated MPG ratings are achievable or not
If we're going to argue, let it be about whether the estimated MPG ratings are achievable or not
- Jun 8, 2024
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There is no way to keep this thread on track. No one knows how tariffs are going to affect out the door consumer prices, so everything is speculation, economic theory, and of course politics because tariffs are as much a political tool as an economic tool.
If we're going to argue, let it be about whether the estimated MPG ratings are achievable or not
It will be interesting to see if vehicles purchased after the tariffs get better or worse gas mileage!
We do know. Tariffs have been in use varyingly but constantly since the early 1800s. Whether they are inflationary isn’t a question. Whether that inflation is an acceptable price to pay to resolve some other problem is the question, at least normally.
There have been times where the inflation was an acceptable price to pay. Very early on after independence, for example, we had little industry of any kind and tariffing was the only effective way to grown an infant manufacturing sector here.
Considering that the current President won on an anti-inflationary message, I think we might not want to deliberately create inflation right now.
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- Jun 8, 2024
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- 2007 Toyota Tundra 4X4 Double Cab 5.7L V8, 2015 Chevrolet SS LS3 V8
My hope is that these tariffs are in fact a negotiating tool, and not a policy goal in and of themselves.
For example, Europe and Japan get tariffs reduced or set back to prior levels if they up their defense spending to NATO treaty levels, and their automakers invest in US factories.
Get some policy concessions from Canada and Mexico in regards to border policy and enforcement. Frankly we should just demand money from Mexico for allowing illegal immigrants to pass through their country.
I would keep tariffs on the Chinese. Hell I’d make them so crippling that importing anything from China would be nearly impossible once we can bring alternative sources of supply on line.
For example, Europe and Japan get tariffs reduced or set back to prior levels if they up their defense spending to NATO treaty levels, and their automakers invest in US factories.
Get some policy concessions from Canada and Mexico in regards to border policy and enforcement. Frankly we should just demand money from Mexico for allowing illegal immigrants to pass through their country.
I would keep tariffs on the Chinese. Hell I’d make them so crippling that importing anything from China would be nearly impossible once we can bring alternative sources of supply on line.
- Jun 8, 2024
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- 2007 Toyota Tundra 4X4 Double Cab 5.7L V8, 2015 Chevrolet SS LS3 V8
Sure…..
Toyota prices are going to increase. No one knows by how much, and how Toyota plans to pass on those increases.
I guess we might as well close it down until Toyota releases details.
I think this is what Toyota said recently. I got this from perplexity.ai "Toyota has announced it will not raise vehicle prices in response to the 25% tariffs imposed by President Trump on global automotive imports starting April 3. Instead, the company will focus on reducing fixed costs and sustaining its existing operations" Here is a link to one of the references .. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-says-maintain-operations-despite-125051795.html My two cents is if you want one buy it soon.
Yeah I’m all about minimalistic lifestyle, but most of his post was off key for me as well. My dad was a worker in construction and when the weather was bad we were barely affording groceries. There was a reason with inflation that households went to two workers-PTSD post
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