Brakes Squeal

[reclinerhead]

Mine will squeal occasionally breaking in D, not just R. Toyota can we get this recalled?

Hi everyone, if you haven't already, I would suggest opening a case with the Toyota Brand Engagement contact form? It only took me a few minutes and I also attached a video recording of the screeching.

Contact Us | Contact Toyota (scroll to the bottom of the page)

I opened a case last week and my case manager contacted me this morning for additional details. She made it sound like the more cases that are opened for this, the higher chance of it being addressed sooner.

I had it to the dealer already, but they failed to reproduce the problem (strange since it happens to me almost every morning).

 

[gavinrobinson12]

I was at the dealer today to get an oil change, and mentioned the reverse brake squealing I get daily. They offered to look at it, and the only suggestion was to lubricate at a cost of ~$120.. 1,200 miles, it's not covered by warranty because it's not a mechanical issue according to the service manager. Nuts. They then proceeded to tell me my next oil change is at 20,000 miles, and just a tire rotation is all that's needed at 10k. Bonkers.

Thanks for posting the contact info, will submit something as well.

 

[ultane]

I was at the dealer today to get an oil change, and mentioned the reverse brake squealing I get daily. They offered to look at it, and the only suggestion was to lubricate at a cost of ~$120.. 1,200 miles, it's not covered by warranty because it's not a mechanical issue according to the service manager. Nuts. They then proceeded to tell me my next oil change is at 20,000 miles, and just a tire rotation is all that's needed at 10k. Bonkers.

Thanks for posting the contact info, will submit something as well.

FIND ANOTHER DEALER.

 

[trek805]

Dropped mine off at dealer this morning for broken lever and squeeling brakes

 

[Broken VW Owner]

Dropped mine off at dealer this morning for broken lever and squeeling brakes

What lever?

 

[trek805]

Lever that jacks up passenger seat (1958 model). It pulled off. Keeper was broken. Dealer just called said they cant hear the squeal. Of course not. Damn dealer

 

[reclinerhead]

Lever that jacks up passenger seat (1958 model). It pulled off. Keeper was broken. Dealer just called said they cant hear the squeal. Of course not. Damn dealer

Hi - sorry to hear that. Welcome to the club. I suggest creating a case with Toyota Brand Management? The person assigned to my case seems to be taking it seriously and they made another appointment for me in a few weeks, after she spoke with the service manager at the dealer.

 

[Ditchnap]

ours started doing this at about 3k miles, only when backing out of the garage in the morning so far. haven't taken it to the dealer yet

 

[ultane]

Certainly @Toyota will get parts out to dealers, and a recall or TSB out soon.

 

[Bluey]

For those who’s dealership service department couldn’t replicate the problem and if they just blow you off. Try to record the squeal on phone and use the service advisor’s email address (not a text) to send the video. In the video narrate what the conditions are (cold start, vehicle parked outside overnight, about to back out, “it’s going to squeal when I apply the brake” it goes away once the vehicle is warmed up.). Email the video and write what your concerns are. If they say they can’t open the video or see it, then upload the video to YouTube and email the YouTube link. This way you have your complaint on record (the email). It’s documented and a service advisor cannot ignore an email, they are required to respond. Their response will also now be on record. You can use this record to help your case.

Also it probably will help if you can leave your vehicle overnight so they can replicate the conditions exactly.
“cold start, vehicle parked outside overnight, when you back out, “it’s going to squeal when you apply the brake” it goes away once the vehicle is warmed up”.

If you are sent away with no results, follow up with a reply all email. “Thank you for looking at my vehicle. Just wanted to follow up and clarify. My vehicle is doing this……. I brought it in and you were unable to replicate and resolve this issue. Your guidance is …….. I appreciate your assistance, please reach out to me if Toyota figures this out and releases a TSB that resolves this issue.”

Or

“ Thank you for looking at my vehicle today. I just wanted to follow up and make sure I understand everything correctly. My vehicle is doing ……. I brought it in on (month, day, year) and you were able to replicate the issue. Unfortunately at this time you do not know why this is happening and therefore have no solution available. For now I just have to live with this issue until Toyota has a recall or TSB that can resolve this problem. Am I understanding all of this correctly?

Something like that.

 

[Belisarius]

I am a new member here as I am working my way towards buying a Land Cruiser, if risk of theft decreases (already a downtrend). the posts here made me laugh a bit because they are not indicative of a technical defect. Having once ordered to spec aerospace grade strand woven ceramic brakes for my German car (non resin), it looks I might get 1,000,000 kms out of them, I know quite a bit about brakes.

The picture above make me smile into nearly telling it out loud! BED YOUR BRAKES. The sound is nothing but resonance caused by imbedded rotors, new pads, and other climate factors. The rotors look neglected - unused and so on. usually for any rental car, airport or danger zone, bedding rotors to remove squealing is the first thing I do. It is easy to do on a LC as it is a heavy vehicle so you do not need to pull 1G or so as I do on sports cars with big brake kits.

The rear rotors are the hardest to bed in, but will be the first to squeal in reverse because the rear brake bias kicks in. yes, morning moisture will result in the sensor commanding brake pressure to prepare the rear rotor for braking in reverse (drying). As for moisture causing rotor discolouration- very rare especially on high grade rotors. Brembo OEM steel rotors will discolour with rain contact, water but not moisture- not for one or several nights. Low corrosion rate.

Once the bedding in occurs, the rotors will have changed colour evenly as the rotor changes properties with heat - the fronts will show it the most. The crystalline bond between unworn materials is broken, and the pad transfers to the rotor. In addition, varying other surface transformations on the rotor steel/iron ensure judder and squeal free operation. Alternatively, unbedded rotors and pads will resonate at their worse when new, unused, and partially contacting each other. Squeeeall!

THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT WARPED BRAKE ROTORS

The REAL truth about warped brake rotors... The typical situation: New pads are fitted to a new pair of brake discs. A week later there’s a vibration or “judder” when the brakes are applied. A call to a mechanically inclined friend and an online search offers the diagnosis—the brake rotors are...

alconkits.com

Keep in mind for the link that a heavy vehicle requires smaller velocity to achieve the same bed in effects as a much lighter car.

But, basically once your rotors develop that blue grey tint, and that original machining is gone, so should the squealing be done. The surfaces, moist or not, will not squeal.

In Canada, there was a point where I would have to re-bed in my rotors each spring (winter salts stripping the brembos) as we could not brake sufficiently in winter, too cold etc. but with climate change we now get -25C days followed up by 5C so I brake harder the warmer days to retransfer the pad material. I usually do a a few harder presses on any courtesy cars just to get the unglazed, (and slippery) which saved me two months ago as my foot went to the floor- the courtesy car had a ruptured brake line and luckily I brake checked right before taking the highway…

Big brake kit owners- most new cars today, are constantly returning to service centers with such issues. have seen 4 months old 1500$ brembo fronts on German cars ruined as first time owners babied their braking for whatever Toyota reasons (usually Toyota owners moving to sports cars are the most frugal gentle breakers). Or to cite Shelby, , use it to get it working and it so; never work well nor last if unused.

That aside, I cannot speak as to the quality of Toyota LC rotors, Japanese brands have been atrocious for brake parts quality- excluding Lexus. Searching for the parts, they appear a low range offering disc rotors. not all rotors are created equal, a good rotor should last (at 12% winter salinity for 5 months), 100 000 kms front and 140,000 kms rear with bedding in. I had cheap rotors rot, develop Sagittal plane rust, fail me catastrophically, but never a brembo, never a high quality one. ceramics aside, quality rotors bed in easily, last a long time, may rust surface only but not internally, and so on. If rotors issues persist, I would get custom high grade rotors for the LC. And why not? It is a beautiful; big vehicle and it should have superb noise free braking as well.

 

[mscenturion]

I am a new member here as I am working my way towards buying a Land Cruiser, if risk of theft decreases (already a downtrend). the posts here made me laugh a bit because they are not indicative of a technical defect. Having once ordered to spec aerospace grade strand woven ceramic brakes for my German car (non resin), it looks I might get 1,000,000 kms out of them, I know quite a bit about brakes.

The picture above make me smile into nearly telling it out loud! BED YOUR BRAKES. The sound is nothing but resonance caused by imbedded rotors, new pads, and other climate factors. The rotors look neglected - unused and so on. usually for any rental car, airport or danger zone, bedding rotors to remove squealing is the first thing I do. It is easy to do on a LC as it is a heavy vehicle so you do not need to pull 1G or so as I do on sports cars with big brake kits.

The rear rotors are the hardest to bed in, but will be the first to squeal in reverse because the rear brake bias kicks in. yes, morning moisture will result in the sensor commanding brake pressure to prepare the rear rotor for braking in reverse (drying). As for moisture causing rotor discolouration- very rare especially on high grade rotors. Brembo OEM steel rotors will discolour with rain contact, water but not moisture- not for one or several nights. Low corrosion rate.

Once the bedding in occurs, the rotors will have changed colour evenly as the rotor changes properties with heat - the fronts will show it the most. The crystalline bond between unworn materials is broken, and the pad transfers to the rotor. In addition, varying other surface transformations on the rotor steel/iron ensure judder and squeal free operation. Alternatively, unbedded rotors and pads will resonate at their worse when new, unused, and partially contacting each other. Squeeeall!

THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT WARPED BRAKE ROTORS

The REAL truth about warped brake rotors... The typical situation: New pads are fitted to a new pair of brake discs. A week later there’s a vibration or “judder” when the brakes are applied. A call to a mechanically inclined friend and an online search offers the diagnosis—the brake rotors are...

alconkits.com

Keep in mind for the link that a heavy vehicle requires smaller velocity to achieve the same bed in effects as a much lighter car.

But, basically once your rotors develop that blue grey tint, and that original machining is gone, so should the squealing be done. The surfaces, moist or not, will not squeal.

In Canada, there was a point where I would have to re-bed in my rotors each spring (winter salts stripping the brembos) as we could not brake sufficiently in winter, too cold etc. but with climate change we now get -25C days followed up by 5C so I brake harder the warmer days to retransfer the pad material. I usually do a a few harder presses on any courtesy cars just to get the unglazed, (and slippery) which saved me two months ago as my foot went to the floor- the courtesy car had a ruptured brake line and luckily I brake checked right before taking the highway…

Big brake kit owners- most new cars today, are constantly returning to service centers with such issues. have seen 4 months old 1500$ brembo fronts on German cars ruined as first time owners babied their braking for whatever Toyota reasons (usually Toyota owners moving to sports cars are the most frugal gentle breakers). Or to cite Shelby, , use it to get it working and it so; never work well nor last if unused.

That aside, I cannot speak as to the quality of Toyota LC rotors, Japanese brands have been atrocious for brake parts quality- excluding Lexus. Searching for the parts, they appear a low range offering disc rotors. not all rotors are created equal, a good rotor should last (at 12% winter salinity for 5 months), 100 000 kms front and 140,000 kms rear with bedding in. I had cheap rotors rot, develop Sagittal plane rust, fail me catastrophically, but never a brembo, never a high quality one. ceramics aside, quality rotors bed in easily, last a long time, may rust surface only but not internally, and so on. If rotors issues persist, I would get custom high grade rotors for the LC. And why not? It is a beautiful; big vehicle and it should have superb noise free braking as well.

I am sooo happy you posted this very detailed, informative response.

I’ve owned what I would consider mid-end sports cars (M3 competition, Shelby GT350). When they were both new, both squeaked loudly, especially the Brembo brakes on the Shelby, until bedded in. Especially after wash, rain, etc. In fact I believe the manual in one of the vehicles talked about ensuring you bed your brakes properly.

My wife and I both own new LCs. Hers was made in the Tahara plant, mine in Hamura plant (traditionally a truck plant). Her brakes squeak only the first time braking going in reverse out of the driveway in the morning after sitting overnight or especially if it’s been a few days. Never any actual issues with performance. The difference between LCs? She has used hers primarily for short trips around town since purchase, mine immediately went on a 2 hour road highway trip where some braking was necessary at higher speeds. Interesting enough, my brake performance is very good but seems ever so slightly softer than hers, her brakes are fantastic and responsive, almost reminding me of my sports cars with higher end factory brakes.

TLDR—I’ve found zero issues with actual performance, I’ve seen this sound going reverse on sports cars I’ve owned, and I agree with everything the user same above. Great post.

 

[Belisarius]

I am sooo happy you posted this very detailed, informative response.

I’ve owned what I would consider mid-end sports cars (M3 competition, Shelby GT350). When they were both new, both squeaked loudly, especially the Brembo brakes on the Shelby, until bedded in. Especially after wash, rain, etc. In fact I believe the manual in one of the vehicles talked about ensuring you bed your brakes properly.

My wife and I both own new LCs. Hers was made in the Tahara plant, mine in Hamura plant (traditionally a truck plant). Her brakes squeak only the first time braking going in reverse out of the driveway in the morning after sitting overnight or especially if it’s been a few days. Never any actual issues with performance. The difference between LCs? She has used hers primarily for short trips around town since purchase, mine immediately went on a 2 hour road highway trip where some braking was necessary at higher speeds. Interesting enough, my brake performance is very good but seems ever so slightly softer than hers, her brakes are fantastic and responsive, almost reminding me of my sports cars with higher end factory brakes.

TLDR—I’ve found zero issues with actual performance, I’ve seen this sound going reverse on sports cars I’ve owned, and I agree with everything the user same above. Great post.

If the vehicles are identical barring mileage and point of origin, the only culprits can be different parts , contamination or brake line pressure. I feel brake pressure decrease at 12-16 month’s especially if driven in rain, moisture sips in. IMO the manufacturers brake fluid interval replacement is mere to reduce service costs but should not be 2-3 years except if the vehicle is brand new.

The second hypothesis for the braking difference would be different rotors or pads. Pads (assuming they have not been contaminated) are not equal though the supply chain.

But one of the reason we must wash rotors with wheel and rotor cleaner is to remove comtamination. Your highway driven LC may pick up exhaust fumes and oil from any sedan especially old one. That film is easy to spot on car finish but your car is too high for that. But on the highway , near diesel trucks those fumes do contain small oil particles etc. depends in rotor cooling system, your M had cooling ducts so road 1 foot height contaminants are funneled straight into the rotors. But if we pull next to a guzzling construction truck, when it leaves the stop line that exhaust is full of oil particles pushing on our rotors. Soap gets that cleaned up.

Nonetheless, bedded in rotors will door emergency stops 20-30% shorter than a glazed or unbedded rotor, perhaps even 50%. that can be the difference between rear ending or not. Courtesy cars are notorious- cheap rotors, glazed, they just slide as if on ice.

For a LC I would do the warmup followed by 8 to 10 0.5 G (phone app) slow down from 80 to 15 km hr without stopping, reaccelerating to 80 rigger away. When heat and smell sips in the cabin just cruise for 10-15 min to cool them down. I do not see the need for 120 to 40 km / hr hard 0.7 G events.

 

[DenisLM]

Probably another factor that increases the squeal is the LC uses less the brakes than a equivalent SUV as some of the brake are done by the hybrid system recharging the battery.

3500 miles in and is squeals every morning. Sometimes few extra times during the day.

I used to have a Charger (Scat Pack Widebody) with massive Brembos and I did a bed in in the first 1000 miles or so, plus I used that brakes like crazy as that car was a insane heavy (and fun). Never had squeal problem (before or after).

I'll try to bed in the brakes one of these days to see if it helps.