I don't disagree with your post. However, the Tacoma has the same drive train but does not require premium gas. Different tuning perhaps? The HP/torque numbers seem the same though.
Super Confused in Fuel needed for 2024 Land Cruiser.
- Thread starter RTRinKY
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You’re not going to find an answer. Read the manual and use your own judgment.
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- #143
Ther are those here on this forum that believe......... if there is a sticker or if it's in the manual and you don't follow said print that your vehicle will self destruct. I would not use opinions concerning octane levels. Do your research and do what you think's best.
If you use lower octane the computer will pull timing and you will have slightly less power.
Not like the old days with non computer control when you could hear pre ignition.
Of course if you do hear pre ignition you went to low
Myself I use 93 but 87 won't destroy the engine
Not like the old days with non computer control when you could hear pre ignition.
Of course if you do hear pre ignition you went to low
Myself I use 93 but 87 won't destroy the engine
- Jun 8, 2024
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Does the Land Cruiser really need 91 octane if the Tacoma can use 87 octane? Or is Toyota marketing the Tacoma as being capable of running lower octane fuel than optimum to satisfy consumers who think a few $$$ difference in a tank of fuel will solve their financial problems?
I don’t know the answer.
I do know that manufacturers these days are always looking for ways to avoid warranty liabilities. Toyota has been better than most, but I wouldn’t put it past them to pull fluid samples if there were an engine problem and attempt to deny warranty coverage based on improper fuel grade.
If the difference in cost stays around the current average of $.67 more for premium gas, at 15000 miles per year averaging 23MPG it costs an extra $437 a year to run premium. If that extra $437 hit to your budget means you’re eating ramen noodles, then you might have more pressing financial problems than saving money on fuel.
I don’t know the answer.
I do know that manufacturers these days are always looking for ways to avoid warranty liabilities. Toyota has been better than most, but I wouldn’t put it past them to pull fluid samples if there were an engine problem and attempt to deny warranty coverage based on improper fuel grade.
If the difference in cost stays around the current average of $.67 more for premium gas, at 15000 miles per year averaging 23MPG it costs an extra $437 a year to run premium. If that extra $437 hit to your budget means you’re eating ramen noodles, then you might have more pressing financial problems than saving money on fuel.
Does the tacoma have the electric motor? I'm to lazy to look but perhaps that is why. Or maybe a different set of marketing/engineers wrote the lc manual
They won’t need to pull a fuel sample. They can tell what the ECU has been doing with the engine tune, to determine that 87 octane was used, if they chose to deny warranty coverage.
Time to have someone who has access to a dyno / a Land Cruiser and Tacoma with the same power plants to do some testing with 93 /91 / 87 octane (no ethanol) and see what the results are. Maybe Ed Martin Toyota who keeps putting out helpful YouTube videos on the Land Cruiser will give this a go. Would be interesting to see real world testing. Pretty sure there is a video out there with a Toyota technician/engineer discussing the engines are tuned differently but it would be interesting to see if the posted numbers by Toyota are accurate.
For what it's worth, the gasoline version of the Prado in the global market comes with the just the turbo 4 cyl engine, non-hybrid (at least for the time being). From what I gather, it also seems to require (or at least "recommend") premium gas.
Manual says use at least 87 gasoline. So that's what I use with the occasional premium. No issues. No drop in fuel economy from what I see. I was told at my dealer that they simply wanted better MPG numbers so they slapped on the premium gas sticker and said it was "preferred." He told me every vehicle drives perfectly fine with 87.
Show me where the manual says use at least 87.
end thread
I don't have it on me at the moment. But the manual says the bare minimum standards of gasoline required are some mechanical speak regarding gasoline. I googled verbatim what it said and it just means regular 87 gas is the bare minimum for this vehicle. The manual goes on to say that premium gasoline is preferred and recommended for optimal performance - whatever that means.
Page 640 of the owner's manual:
"You must only use unleaded gasoline. Select premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 (Research Octane Number 96) or higher required for optimum engine performance and fuel economy. At minimum, the gasoline you use should meet the specifications of ASTM D4814 in the U.S.A."
Nothing anywhere in the manual that gives approval to use mid or low grade fuel but I can see where someone might find a loophole that that would make them feel comfortable not using premium, at least on occasion. Maybe Toyota is obligated to wordsmith thusly to comply with the CAFE regulations. No where I can find is it explicitly stated that you'll void your warranty by using less than 91 but why risk it for a few bucks? Then again I don't have a lot of commuting and so pay a bit more for a tank of premium to go play in the mountains for the weekend isn't a big deal to me. As with all things YMMV, pardon the pun...
"You must only use unleaded gasoline. Select premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 (Research Octane Number 96) or higher required for optimum engine performance and fuel economy. At minimum, the gasoline you use should meet the specifications of ASTM D4814 in the U.S.A."
Nothing anywhere in the manual that gives approval to use mid or low grade fuel but I can see where someone might find a loophole that that would make them feel comfortable not using premium, at least on occasion. Maybe Toyota is obligated to wordsmith thusly to comply with the CAFE regulations. No where I can find is it explicitly stated that you'll void your warranty by using less than 91 but why risk it for a few bucks? Then again I don't have a lot of commuting and so pay a bit more for a tank of premium to go play in the mountains for the weekend isn't a big deal to me. As with all things YMMV, pardon the pun...
The engine in the LC is tuned slightly differently than the same engine in the Grand Highlander and Tacoma. My guess is that Toyota is running a slightly higher boost from the turbo which necessitates the higher octane gas to prevent engine knock. Engine knock can be caused by the pre-ignition of the fuel in the cylinder (meaning that the fuel/air mixture has ignited earlier than ideal.) Modern engines like the one in our LC have many sensors, including knock sensors, so you might be able to run a lower octane fuel without experiencing the detrimental effects of engine knock. That doesn't mean it's a good idea! Mazda makes a straight 6 for the CX-90/CX-70 that accepts either 87 or 91 octane. Running the 91 octane improves the performance of the engine (more HP and more torque), but you can safely run 87 octane because the engine can adjust its tuning for the lower octane. Given that Toyota doesn't give this option, it's possible that the engine tuning may not safely accommodate using lower octane fuel. Just because you can run 87, doesn't mean you should.
There it is: "At minimum, the gasoline you use should meet the specifications of ASTM D4814 in the U.S.A." It's my understanding that this means the minimum needs to be 87 gasoline that is permitted to be sold in the US. If premium was strictly required, Toyota wouldn't use word speak and then say "for optimum engine performance and fuel economy." They would simply state in the manual that premium unleaded gasoline is required. It would be one sentence long.
There's also a popular TikTok Land Cruiser driver who fills up with 87 and has talked to countless people at Toyota who all told him that 87 gas won't do any harm. But if you want to fill up with premium for over a $1 more per gallon, that's up to you.
There's also a popular TikTok Land Cruiser driver who fills up with 87 and has talked to countless people at Toyota who all told him that 87 gas won't do any harm. But if you want to fill up with premium for over a $1 more per gallon, that's up to you.
I think I would follow the Manual recommendation of 91 instead of some TikTok land cruiser driver. Nowhere in this manual is the number 87 octane listed.
You have five posts on this form and I think you were just here to stir up stuff.
This topic has been settled. There is no clear answer and you could use whatever you want. Go away. moderators please close this thread as there is no additional information for this.
Yeah, but...
ASTM covers all fuels under its auspices and doesn't say that 87 is the minimum grade that meets standard and everything above that is gravy. I'm not sure the standard even talks about specific grades but maybe there is a petroleum engineer here who can speak to that. FWIW 85 octane is available here in CO (lower partial pressure of oxygen at altitude and all that) and it meets ASTM standards. IMHO that reference in the manual is just boiler plate and not a specific recommendation.
In the end unless and until someone is willing to follow a rigorous scientific methodology (identical vehicles, identical conditions but for fuel grade) and document the outcome this is just a religious discussion between believers looking for evidence they have the truth, apostates trying to prove them wrong and agnostics wringing their hands because there are no clear answers.
Don't get me wrong, its all very entertaining and if nothing else encourages in depth reading of the LC's manual, which is good, but maybe people should just use whatever gas they want and then live (quietly) with the consequences of their choices. If you need a priest or a minister to interpret the ambiguities of the book and tell you what's right then by all means go talk to a Toyota Mechanic and get your absolution from them.
ASTM covers all fuels under its auspices and doesn't say that 87 is the minimum grade that meets standard and everything above that is gravy. I'm not sure the standard even talks about specific grades but maybe there is a petroleum engineer here who can speak to that. FWIW 85 octane is available here in CO (lower partial pressure of oxygen at altitude and all that) and it meets ASTM standards. IMHO that reference in the manual is just boiler plate and not a specific recommendation.
In the end unless and until someone is willing to follow a rigorous scientific methodology (identical vehicles, identical conditions but for fuel grade) and document the outcome this is just a religious discussion between believers looking for evidence they have the truth, apostates trying to prove them wrong and agnostics wringing their hands because there are no clear answers.
Don't get me wrong, its all very entertaining and if nothing else encourages in depth reading of the LC's manual, which is good, but maybe people should just use whatever gas they want and then live (quietly) with the consequences of their choices. If you need a priest or a minister to interpret the ambiguities of the book and tell you what's right then by all means go talk to a Toyota Mechanic and get your absolution from them.
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- #159
Most modern gasoline engines have knock sensors but not so you can run a lower octane (it allows it but wasn't designed for that purpose) Knock sensors allow the ECM to retard timing as much as possible to maintain the power band for the driving at hand to increase fuel economy. When the sensor(s) detect a knock they tell the ECU to increase timing until the knock goes away, thus maintaining the power band etc.......... The vehicle doesn't know what the octane level is for the fuel that's in the tank, it just knows "X" fuel, obtain engine parameters (speed, torque, air density, pedal position and a lot of other inputs) , retard timing and determine if a knock condition exists......... if not, retard timing etc...... once it gets a knock increase timing ............. all of which takes place within one or two firing cycles...... rinse and repeat.
I see this thread has risen again. I seem to recall that there was a comparison to the Lexus. As I understood it that engine is tuned higher similar to the LC, and both vehicles have a recommendation for Premium.
Honestly, I'm one of those rule followers. And I also read somewhere that one of the first things that Toyota mechanics test when a car comes with an engine problem is the gas. Personally, I may dare somethings but not my wheels.
Honestly, I'm one of those rule followers. And I also read somewhere that one of the first things that Toyota mechanics test when a car comes with an engine problem is the gas. Personally, I may dare somethings but not my wheels.
