Super Confused in Fuel needed for 2024 Land Cruiser.

[ultane]

I wonder if you could get a dealership to tune it to 87? I will have to ask.

Years ago, BMW motorcycle dealerships could flash the ECU’s on their bikes, before riders/owners would take off to destinations south of the border, and Central America, where 91 octane fuel isn’t always available. The 87 octane down there would then not hurt the highly tuned boxer engines.

 

[Nick]

A few weeks ago at OverlandExpo PNW someone asked Marcus Umlauff about the fuel difference (the only 2025 4Runner Trailhunter in North America was right behind him) and he said he wasn’t sure, but would have the powertrain engineers come over and talk with us. They did, and said that the LC, as a heavier vehicle(?), was tuned differently than the Tacoma and 4Runner. They also admitted it would be expected to be used in places where only 87 is available and in that case if the engine detected knocking it would compensate appropriately.

As a side note, when my salesperson took me to fill the tank he asked me what grade I wanted and I pointed out the "Premium only" label. I don't fault him though - he reached out to me the instant they got the allocation.

OK so we're trusting you that these engineers actually existed.
Seriously though, I have never seen where only 87 octane fuel is available. Has anyone here seen that or live where it is only available?
I did a Google search and I cannot find the answer. I found where 85 is available and 91 but not 87 only.

 

[FarooqMCSE]

Hi Nick and all of our great friends. My friend had a gas station. I observed very closely. Premium gas had Techron. Cheaper gas had very little Techron. They used to sell a mid tier gas also. Delivery person would drop half premium and half cheaper in underground tank to get the mid tier gas. I do use eco mode. I have always used the 87 octane Chevron/ Sam's Club gas. I have 2000+ mileage. My mpg has been 25. Trust me. Premium can be used but it is not mandatory. I am in Southern California.

 

[NoMe cruiser]

Seriously though, I have never seen where only 87 octane fuel is available. Has anyone here seen that or live where it is only available?

Package store down the road from me has 87 only.

 

[bluebullet]

Package store down the road from me has 87 only.

Now I am completely/utterly confused. Does CHevron make Tecron? Is Chevron leaving PRCA for Houston? Chevron says it is moving its headquarters out of California

Unwatch=1

 

[Nick]

Hi Nick and all of our great friends. My friend had a gas station. I observed very closely. Premium gas had Techron. Cheaper gas had very little Techron. They used to sell a mid tier gas also. Delivery person would drop half premium and half cheaper in underground tank to get the mid tier gas. I do use eco mode. I have always used the 87 octane Chevron/ Sam's Club gas. I have 2000+ mileage. My mpg has been 25. Trust me. Premium can be used but it is not mandatory. I am in Southern California.

Thank you Farooq. I believe in top-tier gasoline only just as Toyota recommends.
Have you put any amount of mileage in regular or sport mode? I'm curious if it would act different.
As for the warranty as others have stated, I'm wondering if the
LC itself and/or technicians and/or engineers would know you used regular gas instead of premium.
To know if the vehicle was knocking, no radio on and possibly listening to the vehicle from standing outside, especially with the hood raised. I don't know. Would you be certain that it has not been knocking.
I'm trusting you because your name means to separate truth from fiction.
I'm waiting for the response from Toyota from the member who asked them if if it's ok to run regular.
As long as they don't say it will void the warranty if you do and it is acceptable, I'm willing to try some in my LC after my thousand mile break-in.
Also I'm hoping some engineers from Toyota are watching this forum.
I think it would be a great idea for Toyota to have people watching forums for these types of questions, especially for a new generation of vehicles.
I think I'll send that suggestion to Toyota.

 

[Nick]

Years ago, BMW motorcycle dealerships could flash the ECU’s on their bikes, before riders/owners would take off to destinations south of the border, and Central America, where 91 octane fuel isn’t always available. The 87 octane down there would then not hurt the highly tuned boxer engines.

I always wanted a BMW. Don't know why I never did get one. I had almost died T-boning a car back in' 88.I survived with very little injury.

Also in I wouldn't ride for anything today but to save my life because of all these texting drivers and illegal immigrants without without drivers licenses and insurance that don't know how to drive as well as all these cupcakes who don't know how to drive either and don't know what courtesy is. Hit and runs or so normal to hear about anymore.

Also in Florida, we call this God's waiting room because of all the retirees down here. They are responsible for many accidents.
Studies showed seniors between 70 and 74 are the higher risks of fatal crashes and even higher after 85.
Driving Performance in Older Adults: Current Measures, Findings, and Implications for Roadway Safety

 

[REB27]

I always wanted a BMW. Don't know why I never did get one. I had almost died T-boning a car back in' 88.I survived with very little injury.
I wouldn't ride for anything but to save my life today because of all these texting drivers and immigrants that don't know how to drive as well as all these cupcakes don't know how to drive either and don't know what courtesy.
Hit and runs or so normal to hear about anymore.

Since when does being an immigrant mean one “don’t know how to drive”?

 

[TakaraLC]

I always wanted a BMW. Don't know why I never did get one. I had almost died T-boning a car back in' 88.I survived with very little injury.
I wouldn't ride for anything but to save my life today because of all these texting drivers and immigrants that don't know how to drive as well as all these cupcakes don't know how to drive either and don't know what courtesy.
Hit and runs or so normal to hear about anymore.

To which category people over 60 fall into? Since the only groups that causes more fatal accidents than 60+ are teenagers.

 

[Nick]

Since when does being an immigrant mean one “don’t know how to drive”?

Oh gosh. I am the son of immigrants. I really stated that wrong. I apologize.
What I was really thinking was these illegal immigrants that don't get drivers' licenses and insurance. The notorious for hit and runs in Florida and I'm sure everywhere else.
No offense to you or anyone else. I think I can go back and edit that. And I did just that.

 

[Nick]

To which category people over 60 fall into? Since the only groups that causes more fatal accidents than 60+ are teenagers.

Well I seem to be hitting some nerves today again. Another apology if I did to you.
Yes in Florida elderly drivers are notorious for hitting motorcycles. Even way back then, I can remember being stopped at a light in the left side of the lane so I was in front of the drivers vision and elderly drivers would pull up and stop right next to me yakking and yakking and didn't even know I was there inches away from their car door.

And texting drivers of all ages are responsible for so many accidents anymore. It's a shame Florida couldn't pass strict no texting and driving laws like they have up in the northeast and I'm sure elsewhere in the country. They only disallow it in the school zones.

By the way, I'm 65. I still drive like I'm 25 though. I've put just over 200,000 miles on my vehicles combined not including about 70,000 miles on motorcycles.
I know it's going to catch up with me sooner or later, I certainly hope it's not by harming anyone or killing anyone or even property damage.

 

[Nick]

To which category people over 60 fall into? Since the only groups that causes more fatal accidents than 60+ are teenagers.

Over 60 not bad it's the over 70 and 85 crowds. Here's a good study....

Driving Performance in Older Adults: Current Measures, Findings, and Implications for Roadway Safety

 

[NoMe cruiser]

One troll shows up and …

 

[EOD Guy]

Hmmmmmm, I lived in FL for awhile only problem we encountered was slow driving from the snow birds. (people who travel south for the winter)

 

[TakaraLC]

Well I seem to be hitting some nerves today again. Another apology if I did to you.
Yes in Florida elderly drivers are notorious for hitting motorcycles. Even way back then, I can remember being stopped at a light in the left side of the lane so I was in front of the drivers vision and elderly drivers would pull up and stop right next to me yakking and yakking and didn't even know I was there inches away from their car door.

And texting drivers of all ages are responsible for so many accidents anymore. It's a shame Florida couldn't pass strict no texting and driving laws like they have up in the northeast and I'm sure elsewhere in the country. They only disallow it in the school zones.

By the way, I'm 65. I still drive like I'm 25 though. I've put just over 200,000 miles on my vehicles combined not including about 70,000 miles on motorcycles.
I know it's going to catch up with me sooner or later, I certainly hope it's not by harming anyone or killing anyone or even property damage.

It’s all good man. It is just my opinion that bad drivers in the US are equally diverse as the rest of the country. They are people who drive overly aggressive, dangerously or simply beyond their capabilities.

 

[ultane]

I always wanted a BMW. Don't know why I never did get one. I had almost died T-boning a car back in' 88.I survived with very little injury.

Also in I wouldn't ride for anything today but to save my life because of all these texting drivers and illegal immigrants without without drivers licenses and insurance that don't know how to drive as well as all these cupcakes who don't know how to drive either and don't know what courtesy is. Hit and runs or so normal to hear about anymore.

Also in Florida, we call this God's waiting room because of all the retirees down here. They are responsible for many accidents.
Studies showed seniors between 70 and 74 are the higher risks of fatal crashes and even higher after 85.
Driving Performance in Older Adults: Current Measures, Findings, and Implications for Roadway Safety

I first became aware of the boxers when I was at the Daytona 200 (IIRC) when I was a kid. Two BMW’s ended up on the podium. Skip forward to ~2001, my two son’s and I climbed Mt. Bora, the tallest mountain in Idaho. The next day, we over slept our free breakfast in Sun Valley, Idaho. We were walking around looking for a suitable restaurant to eat breakfast. I saw tow BMW’s. One was a R1150 GS, the other a R1150 GS Adventure. BMW had ruined the BMW airheads that I fell in love with as a kid. I was immediately sucked into the bikes, trying to figure out the design, and why they looked like they did. Slowly I began to see the design, and the purpose of the design.

For the next five years, I would stop into the BMW dealership in Boise, just gauking at them. I got to know the principle of the shop and we had many talks over the years. He went to the Air Force Academy, and was later one of the lead designers of the F117 engines. When the 2007 GSA’s hit the showroom. I ended up buying Gretchen. Over the next few years I learned several things while traveling all over the left side off the country.

1. Everyone in a cage is trying to kill you if you are on a bike
2. Everyone on a bike is invisible, not able to even be seen by the idiots in the cages.
3. See number 1 above.

Having Gretchen helped heal the pain of losing my wife to drugs and addiction, and all the pain and suffering she brought to those around us, everyone in our immediate and extended sphere, including the kids.

Well crap.. what was the point to all this??

The only two or three near death experiences I had on Gretchen,

1. An 82 year old man ran me off the dirt road I was on out in a desert in north east Oregon, left me for dead after taking pictures of my lifeless body laying there on my back when I regained consciousness, looking up at the sky above me.

2. A teenager (I think) who could not see above the steering wheel, came up on behind me on the four lane road I was on. Just before he hit me, I swerved to the right, into the parking lot of the DMV, having to lay my big girl down.

3. A drug crazed tattoed psychopath got about 12 inches off of my rear wheel while I was riding on the interstate late at night. Gradually, I began slowing down, and pulled over to the emergency lane on the side of the interstate, finally stopping. Got off Gretchen, facing the two idiots in the Camaro, I began to reach into my chest pocket on my Aerostich Roadcrafter, as to pull out my .45 S&W. The passenger started freaked out, making the asshat driver get out of there, before they both might suffer from acute high speed lead poisoning… yea.. drastic measures sometimes are needed to change the minds of idiots. Had they stayed, I could have taken pictures of them with the Motorola Droid that I was reaching for in my Roadcrafter pocket. (the .45 was at home).

 

[bluebullet]

This forum has some of the best stories I've read in a while

 

[Nick]

I first became aware of the boxers when I was at the Daytona 200 (IIRC) when I was a kid. Two BMW’s ended up on the podium. Skip forward to ~2001, my two son’s and I climbed Mt. Bora, the tallest mountain in Idaho. The next day, we over slept our free breakfast in Sun Valley, Idaho. We were walking around looking for a suitable restaurant to eat breakfast. I saw tow BMW’s. One was a R1150 GS, the other a R1150 GS Adventure. BMW had ruined the BMW airheads that I fell in love with as a kid. I was immediately sucked into the bikes, trying to figure out the design, and why they looked like they did. Slowly I began to see the design, and the purpose of the design.

For the next five years, I would stop into the BMW dealership in Boise, just gauking at them. I got to know the principle of the shop and we had many talks over the years. He went to the airforce academy, and was later one of the lead designers of the F117 engines. When the 2007 GSA’s hit the showroom. I ended up buying Gretchen. Over the next few years I learned several things while traveling all over the left side off the country.

1. Everyone in a cage is trying to kill you if you are on a bike
2. Everyone on a bike is invisible, not able to even be seen by the idiots in the cages.
3. See number 1 above.

Having Gretchen helped heal the pain of losing my wife to drugs and addiction, and all the pain and suffering she brought to those around us, everyone in our immediate and extended sphere, including the kids.

Well crap.. what was the point to all this??

The only two or three near death experiences I had on Gretchen,

1. An 82 year old man ran me off the dirt road I was on out in a desert in north east Oregon, left me for dead after taking pictures of my lifeless body laying there on my back when I regained consciousness, looking up at the sky above me.

2. A teenager (I think) who could not see above the steering wheel, came up on behind me on the four lane road I was on. Just before he hit me, I swerved to the right, into the parking lot of the DMV, having to lay my big girl down.

3. A drug crazed tattoed psychopath got about 12 inches off of my rear wheel while I was riding on the interstate late at night. Gradually, I began slowing down, and pulled over to the emergency lane on the side of the interstate, finally stopping. Got off Gretchen, facing the two idiots in the Camaro, I began to reach into my chest pocket on my Aerostich Roadcrafter, as to pull out my .45 S&W. The passenger started freaked out, making the asshat driver get out of there, before they both might suffer from acute high speed lead poisoning… yea.. drastic measures sometimes are needed to change the minds of idiots. Had they stayed, I could have taken pictures of them with the Motorola Droid that I was reaching for in my Roadcrafter pocket. (the .45 was at home).

I feel for you Brother. I'm just amazed it was an 82-year-old that was taking pictures of what he thought was your lifeless body! I'm glad Gretchen helped you with your pain.
I used to like riding at night for some reason back in the 80s. There was only 300,000 people on earth, so my little town in Florida was sparsely populated.

Two different times I was sitting at a light and I always watched behind me when a car was approaching. Both those times I could tell that car was gonna blow through that light taking me out so I just looked both ways real quick and took off through the light and went off to the curb side and sure enough those cars blew through those lights both times.

It was a full moon and I never went out on a full moon again at night. Never went out on New Year's Eve or any holiday because I had similar experiences.

It's amazing when there's no one behind you when they pull out right in front of you as did my T-bone accident.
They look you in the eye so you think, and then they pull out. I've had them sit and waiting with no one behind me so I figured they saw me then they pulled at the last second.

I think if I was riding again I would get one of them giant bubbles that you get into where they roll them down the hill except I would just ride my bike with it that way when I crash I would bounce around off of cars 10 to 15 times before I came to a rest and then I could just pop the bubble and walk away from it unscathed.

Nice being in a Toyota with such wonderful safety features.
Stay safe and have a happy long life.

 

[Midwest Duo]

If the manual calls for 91 Octane feed it 91 Octane. I don’t see what is so difficult to understand about this for some people. Particularly given that this is a turbocharged gasoline engine, and it’s static compression ratio before boost is already fairly healthy.

I love all the posts about experience with other cars that call for premium but run fine on regular, and the poster cites their insert naturally aspirated engine equipped vehicle as proof. Or cites lower octane is OK at higher altitudes etc. These people clearly have no idea what turbochargers are, how they work, or what they accomplish. Frankly it’s a disservice selling only a turbocharged engine in a mass market vehicle because some owners are just not bright enough to follow the fuel recommendation in the damn manual or handily emblazoned on the gas cap or filler door.

If you can’t afford to spend a few extra dollars putting 91 or 93 octane in the tank you can’t afford the vehicle. Go buy something within your budget.

Loved this so much I read it to my wife as she wondered about this on our drive home from dealer. Message received loud and clear. Thank you.

 

[RUN-8]

Loved this so much I read it to my wife as she wondered about this on our drive home from dealer. Message received loud and clear. Thank you.

Later I will be giving an encore performance of yelling at kids to get off my lawn (even though I’m not old enough to do that yet).

As for what fuel to feed the T24A-FTS in the Land Cruiser (or any other turbocharged gasoline engine) my bias is towards putting in 91 Octane. Turbochargers and superchargers create positive manifold pressure, drastically increasing the effective compression ratio and the temperature in the charge air in the cylinder. More resistance to knock is beneficial here, particularly in hot weather, when the engine is being worked hard, or both.

I am aware that in a pinch you can safely run lower octane fuel in a modern turbocharged engine. When knock is detected the ECU can retard timing, and signal the wastegate to open up and reduce exhaust gas flow over the turbine, or completely bypass the turbine so boost is reduced or eliminated.

If running around making less power and probably getting worse mileage (retarding timing kills fuel efficiency) is worth saving a few dollars per tank I guess people can do as they like.