LC 250 Hate = It’s REAL

[mns1971]

Just close the laptop lid and go for a drive. You've got too much screen time and not enough seat time. Is it the best vehicle ever made? Probably not. Is it still a great vehicle? Sure seems like it.

In 10 years when the aftermarket has had time to outfit the current LC/GX like they have all previous models, most of the complaints will disappear.

And since they're starting from a far more realistic price point than previous years, these LCs and GXs will be a favorite of used car buyers and whatever the off-road/overland crowd calls itself then.

It's an iconic platform. Just give it time.

So much noise around the LC250. Well, sales are showing Toyota got it right. So many people demanding a ‘real’ 4x4 with massive HP and huge tires and . Ford listened and gave the world the Bronco. The pundits rejoiced a new breed of 4x4 had arrived. A proper one. And yet, Ford dealer lots sit with massive inventories of unsold Broncos.

Toyota didn’t get caught up in the noise. They knew what true Land Cruiser enthusiasts and customers wanted. They gave us the LC250. And the pundits screamed it’s not a real Land Cruiser. Meanwhile all the new LC250 owners saying Toyota got it right.

There is a small minority of people who declare they have the correct opinion of what a Land Cruiser should be. Yet they didn’t buy their image when they had the chance. It’s like they just want to know it exists, even if they know they don’t really want to own it. I’m really glad Toyota knows what it’s doing. Because the true enthusiasts are the ones who are buying and using them. Not the ones who sit on the sideline and try to have the world fulfill their fantasies of what a real LC is.

First off this is not a troll thread, because I personally own a LC 250 First Edition that I purchased in October.

Before buying my LC 250 First edition I did some/a lot of research via YouTube and written articles and I test drove 3 different LC 250’s, plus I test drove a GX 550, so in fairness I knew what I was getting myself into. I did a fairly in depth review on my LC 250 Likes and dislikes probably 1 month ago. And my stance has not changed. I pretty much really like/love the LC 250 but there are 2 things I really hate = fuel economy and 18 gallon tank. Everything else I really like. I know it’s better off road than the 200 series LC and I personally likes the looks better.

Here comes the unfortunate downfall of the LC 250 and unfortunately it really is not fair, but it’s the world we live in today and that undoing is YOUTUBE and SOCIAL MEDIA. Let’s be honest the social media automotive industry, and I call them social media automotive industry for a reason because they are not journalists like they think they are, has really hurt the LC 250, along with Toyota/lexus brand in general. If You where to take a full day and just do a lot of research via YouTube, written articles, and utilize other sources like article comments, the general consensus from reviewers and consumers is far more negative than positive. For Example lets look at the common summary they you will hear from most consumers and reviewers of the LC 250 =

1) not a real Landcruiser.

2) cheaply built compared to the LC 200 and other SUV’S.

3) The GX is far better and is the REAL Landcruiser.

4) terrible engine choice to put in a Landcruiser

5) This is a Prado = light duty cheap Landcruiser

6) The vehicle sounds “ Tinty” and cheaply made

7) Ground clearance is terrible and it is better on the LC 200, although after climbing underneath mine I found that my lowest ground clearance is 10 inches with no lift and BFG KO3’S 275 R 18’S. I guess I can not read a ruler or maybe I got lucky with the build on mine.

8) Fuel economy is terrible.

9) small fuel tank

10 ) Terrible acceleration

11) way to expensive for a cheaply made vehicle.

12) How could Toyota put a Rav 4 engine in a Landcruiser.

Do I agree with sentiments ? NO. The only points I agree with are the fuel economy and the small fuel tank. But unfortunately social media , especially YouTube, has really done damage to the LC 250 in terms of initial reputation and perception. It’s even to a point where LC 200 owners literally piss on LC 250 owners and GX 550 owners do the same. It’s really a shame because it is actually just dividing the brand even more and slowly eroding the existing values and potential resale values in the toilet. But unfortunately this social media hate isn’t just on the LC 250 , it’s on a lot of Toyota/lexus products today = LX 600, GX 550, TUNDRA, TACOMA, and the new 4 Runner . They are all getting trashed badly and although you would not think it could effect future values of vehicles, it most certainly can and it does today, and resale value has always been a strong point of Toyota/lexus. I will illustrate how perception and YouTube effected 1 particular Toyota model, in this case for the better. The LC 200. Prior to Covid you could walk into a Toyota dealership and if they had a new LC 200 on the with a MSRP of $ 86,000.00 you could walk out of the dealership purchasing that vehicle for around $ 77,000.00. Once covid hit and Toyota announced the end of the V-8 Landcruiser and rumors started to surface about a possible Hybrid Landcruiser a 2020/2021 Landcruiser with 40,000 miles was selling for $ 85,000.00 and guess what, people are actually bragging about paying that price for a “ REAL LANDCRUISER” . By the time these people purchase a warranty and put cool looking off road tires on their “ real Landcruiser “ they have $ 100,000.00 in a used 40,000 mile LC 200, but the LC 250 at $ 58,000 to $ 76,000 ( first edition ) is to expensive. Hence the power of social media.

If social media can effect a presidential election like it did in 2020, it can most certainly effect vehicle values. I’m kind of a nerd with stats, but what really boggles my mind is a company like Ford rolls out Recalls literally every other day and in a lot of cases there is better value in buying a Ford vehicle than a Toyota/lexus and just think 5-10 years ago you never would have seen this. And you very rarely see a negative review on a Ford vehicle, especially the Ford performance variants like Raptors and mustangs. Amazing.

I know that’s a long thread but after looking at some values and actual numbers in correspondence with timelines with the recent Toyota/Lexus hate, you know the old saying, NUMBERS DON’T LIE.

I actually think Toyota/lexus still builds a quality vehicle and in most cases builds a much better vehicle than the big 3, but resale and value and social media reviews are telling a different story. Personally I think Toyota should have named the LC 250 the new FJ cruiser, I think that would quieted a lot of the mass hysteria because unfortunately a lot of United States consumers do not have a clue how important the LC 250 prado is to the Landcruiser lineage and history.

Although I will have to honestly say if I was to reverse the timeframe to October and do it all over again , I probably would have opted for a Ford Raptor R just based on value for dollar because there is no comparison. Unfortunately Toyota/Lexus vehicles do not hold the same values or desirability as they did pre COVID and I really don’t think they ever will again.

Yes, YouTube and social media has become extremely powerful.

First off this is not a troll thread, because I personally own a LC 250 First Edition that I purchased in October.

Before buying my LC 250 First edition I did some/a lot of research via YouTube and written articles and I test drove 3 different LC 250’s, plus I test drove a GX 550, so in fairness I knew what I was getting myself into. I did a fairly in depth review on my LC 250 Likes and dislikes probably 1 month ago. And my stance has not changed. I pretty much really like/love the LC 250 but there are 2 things I really hate = fuel economy and 18 gallon tank. Everything else I really like. I know it’s better off road than the 200 series LC and I personally likes the looks better.

Here comes the unfortunate downfall of the LC 250 and unfortunately it really is not fair, but it’s the world we live in today and that undoing is YOUTUBE and SOCIAL MEDIA. Let’s be honest the social media automotive industry, and I call them social media automotive industry for a reason because they are not journalists like they think they are, has really hurt the LC 250, along with Toyota/lexus brand in general. If You where to take a full day and just do a lot of research via YouTube, written articles, and utilize other sources like article comments, the general consensus from reviewers and consumers is far more negative than positive. For Example lets look at the common summary they you will hear from most consumers and reviewers of the LC 250 =

1) not a real Landcruiser.

2) cheaply built compared to the LC 200 and other SUV’S.

3) The GX is far better and is the REAL Landcruiser.

4) terrible engine choice to put in a Landcruiser

5) This is a Prado = light duty cheap Landcruiser

6) The vehicle sounds “ Tinty” and cheaply made

7) Ground clearance is terrible and it is better on the LC 200, although after climbing underneath mine I found that my lowest ground clearance is 10 inches with no lift and BFG KO3’S 275 R 18’S. I guess I can not read a ruler or maybe I got lucky with the build on mine.

8) Fuel economy is terrible.

9) small fuel tank

10 ) Terrible acceleration

11) way to expensive for a cheaply made vehicle.

12) How could Toyota put a Rav 4 engine in a Landcruiser.

Do I agree with sentiments ? NO. The only points I agree with are the fuel economy and the small fuel tank. But unfortunately social media , especially YouTube, has really done damage to the LC 250 in terms of initial reputation and perception. It’s even to a point where LC 200 owners literally piss on LC 250 owners and GX 550 owners do the same. It’s really a shame because it is actually just dividing the brand even more and slowly eroding the existing values and potential resale values in the toilet. But unfortunately this social media hate isn’t just on the LC 250 , it’s on a lot of Toyota/lexus products today = LX 600, GX 550, TUNDRA, TACOMA, and the new 4 Runner . They are all getting trashed badly and although you would not think it could effect future values of vehicles, it most certainly can and it does today, and resale value has always been a strong point of Toyota/lexus. I will illustrate how perception and YouTube effected 1 particular Toyota model, in this case for the better. The LC 200. Prior to Covid you could walk into a Toyota dealership and if they had a new LC 200 on the with a MSRP of $ 86,000.00 you could walk out of the dealership purchasing that vehicle for around $ 77,000.00. Once covid hit and Toyota announced the end of the V-8 Landcruiser and rumors started to surface about a possible Hybrid Landcruiser a 2020/2021 Landcruiser with 40,000 miles was selling for $ 85,000.00 and guess what, people are actually bragging about paying that price for a “ REAL LANDCRUISER” . By the time these people purchase a warranty and put cool looking off road tires on their “ real Landcruiser “ they have $ 100,000.00 in a used 40,000 mile LC 200, but the LC 250 at $ 58,000 to $ 76,000 ( first edition ) is to expensive. Hence the power of social media.

If social media can effect a presidential election like it did in 2020, it can most certainly effect vehicle values. I’m kind of a nerd with stats, but what really boggles my mind is a company like Ford rolls out Recalls literally every other day and in a lot of cases there is better value in buying a Ford vehicle than a Toyota/lexus and just think 5-10 years ago you never would have seen this. And you very rarely see a negative review on a Ford vehicle, especially the Ford performance variants like Raptors and mustangs. Amazing.

I know that’s a long thread but after looking at some values and actual numbers in correspondence with timelines with the recent Toyota/Lexus hate, you know the old saying, NUMBERS DON’T LIE.

I actually think Toyota/lexus still builds a quality vehicle and in most cases builds a much better vehicle than the big 3, but resale and value and social media reviews are telling a different story. Personally I think Toyota should have named the LC 250 the new FJ cruiser, I think that would quieted a lot of the mass hysteria because unfortunately a lot of United States consumers do not have a clue how important the LC 250 prado is to the Landcruiser lineage and history.

Although I will have to honestly say if I was to reverse the timeframe to October and do it all over again , I probably would have opted for a Ford Raptor R just based on value for dollar because there is no comparison. Unfortunately Toyota/Lexus vehicles do not hold the same values or desirability as they did pre COVID and I really don’t think they ever will again.

Yes, YouTube and social media has become extremely powerful.

Based on sales and supply/ demand none of this is true for north carollina / southeast dealers or resale. I bought out of state and had to find truck I wanted 8 states away! 1958 model i understand comments and different truck and feel- I love my premium 2024 and my wife loves it too and bought it for her birthday in december. For 68k out the door, find it incredible value and reliable and suspect nothing social media does will affect this and don't have the time you have to listen to haters or google the topic. Buy what you want and move on-life is too short to feed into opinionated world we love in. Stay positive man!

 

[TakaraLC]

That doesn’t make it a better vehicle. I have owned three LandCruiser 200s and traded a 2018 for a new LandCruiser 250 First Edition in May of 2024. I have purchased and sold many vehicles and this is the transaction I regret most.

As far as Toyota is concerned, it makes it a better vehicle.

 

[jaynorwood52]

I actually agree with most of what you are saying, no question. I’m just really amazed and disappointed at how social media in general has single handily destroyed the vehicle value of Toyota/lexus and the perception of the brand , believe me when do the timeline you can draw a pretty definitive conclusion = numbers don’t lie as they say in engineering terms.

I’m actually surprised at the reception. I find my 1958 to be perfect in every way based on my needs. We have owned 4Rs, Tacomas and a LC100- and originally opted for a 2024 4R with plans to make it our off-roader (replacing my Tacoma) and get the gX550 later this year. After 2 months and trying to pull a 16 foot travel trailer to base camp (WNC mountains) it proved to be wholly inadequate. We considered the 550 but opted for the 1958 to move forward with the off-road build. I do - and will actually hit the trails and look forward to building this LC250 and enjoying it for years. It packs all the goods IMO. I don’t get the hate. It’s moronic to say the least. My wife even loves the 1958 and she can’t wait for a 550 or possibly the main trim.

 

[bluescruiser]

I don’t consider the hate real in the least because this is all online noise. I get nothing but positive reactions in real life

 

[filocolnaghi]

Proud owner of a LC250 in Italy (probably the first here). There is no 360 degree perfect car because there are infinite needs, roads and terrains. What matters is what you want and what you need.

Someone here said diesel engines are unreliable… yet Diesel engines are better for African trips as gasoline isn’t available everywhere.

Someone else said the interiors look cheap considered the cost of the car. Yet I find them more solid than any BMW or Audi, and if they made them look any fancier, I would be disappointed: I like the simple yet tough look and I’m more inclined to bring this car into the wild because of this. They perfectly represent the Toyota brand.

Fuel economy is average for this car if used in a city or traffic. But it was not built for that… get a Prius if you want fuel economy.

the only downside about the car, which I cannot blame Toyota but the European regulations, is the alarms you cannot permanently deactivate. But I’m sure there will be a hack for that very soon.

Overall, everyone has their “perfect girl” and that can vary greatly from one person to the other. Some like fat asses, others like very tall girls. I like my Land Cruiser the way it is, and accept the few negatives aspects because she is amazing in every other way.

(I apologize if my reference to women might offend someone here, but Italians simply love both women and cars equally, and woke culture hasn’t crossed the Italian border yet).

 

[ultane]

Check out Ben Hardy for this crap. He posts it daily, or several times a day, often with the same recycled click bait picture he’s used countless times before. This is not designed to be accurate or helpful; don’t fall for it.

Yet, all he drives is Toyota’s.

I LOVE Miss Daisy. Is she perfect, NO. But she is for me.

Yea, a larger tank would be nice. But at my age, stopping for gas every 250 to 300 miles isn’t a bad thing, when we need a bathroom break, and to stretch our legs before we get all ‘stoved up’. So now, I am kinda thankful that the tank isn’t a 20 gallon tank. My days of driving 400 plus miles, nonstop, have come and gone.

 

[Steve.Berglund]

Haven't tried it yet, but I think the problem (dead horse) is going to be less making stops on the highway and more managing back country areas. The question of how remote can I go before gas becomes a problem is a bit more immediate. I'm not opposed to carrying gas cans with me if I need to, but that's my main concern regarding the gas tank, not necessarily stopping along a highway route.

I like my LC for the most part, that's really my only concern out of all the online noise I've seen.

 

[Midwest Duo]

Our LC is not an investment property. We love ours. At our age we’re kinda looking at it as our “for the duration” vehicle.

 

[Thebamboodude]

so,,, here is the US sales unit number for 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Sequoia, Tundra, Lexus GX and LX, along with market overall, from 2005 to 2024. (some numbers here and there might be off, since I did it in like 30min,,, )

LC250 sold 29113 units, which isn't too shabby considering January-March 2024 was zero and April was only 94 units. Lexus GX is also off to a good start as well, and combining Lexus LX unit sales results, it seems like Toyota's decision of not having LC300 series in North America was right, after all. In fact, the TNGA-F platform models have increased US market share by nearly full 1 percent, which is quite a feat.

Interesting to see how 2025 4Runner sales will unfold. If they can achieve 120-140K units and keep LC250 and GX units around 30K-35K, there will be barely any cannibalization. We shall see.

It's actually quite funny after looking at these 20 year historical sales numbers and then watching some YouTubers videos. Many of them are not even hiding that Toyota (negative) reviews get lot of views and they are just doing it for the "content".

All being said, I love watching Throttle House. That LC and 4Runner content today was pure GEM.

 

[Buckfever]

I suspect the 4Runner nonhybrid will be a big seller because of the price point, but we'll see.

 

[Altitude]

so,,, here is the US sales unit number for 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Sequoia, Tundra, Lexus GX and LX, along with market overall, from 2005 to 2024. (some numbers here and there might be off, since I did it in like 30min,,, )

LC250 sold 29113 units, which isn't too shabby considering January-March 2024 was zero and April was only 94 units. Lexus GX is also off to a good start as well, and combining Lexus LX unit sales results, it seems like Toyota's decision of not having LC300 series in North America was right, after all. In fact, the TNGA-F platform models have increased US market share by nearly full 1 percent, which is quite a feat.
View attachment 25681
Interesting to see how 2025 4Runner sales will unfold. If they can achieve 120-140K units and keep LC250 and GX units around 30K-35K, there will be barely any cannibalization. We shall see.

It's actually quite funny after looking at these 20 year historical sales numbers and then watching some YouTubers videos. Many of them are not even hiding that Toyota (negative) reviews get lot of views and they are just doing it for the "content".

All being said, I love watching Throttle House. That LC and 4Runner content today was pure GEM.

Toyota will sell as many 4Runners as they can build, at or near MSRP and above it initially, for 2-3 years. Then it will simmer as a regional performer indefinitely, just as it has for a long time. It looks fantastic.

The new SUV rollout has been a massive unqualified success for Toyota.

And there is very little I don’t like about the Land Cruiser. I agree the engine is coarse but not that it is underpowered. I can accept the coarse engine as part of the car’s personality.

My main gripe might simply be that it’s a bit tall and with my ski rack on it there are certain places it won’t fit. One of which, ironically, is the Lionshead garage at Vail which is annoying since I live there some of the time and use that garage about a dozen times each winter. Surprisingly the Land Cruiser is a few inches taller than my 2016 Tahoe was.

But I knew the dimensions before I bought it. And the headroom inside is nice.

 

[ultane]

so,,, here is the US sales unit number for 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Sequoia, Tundra, Lexus GX and LX, along with market overall, from 2005 to 2024. (some numbers here and there might be off, since I did it in like 30min,,, )

LC250 sold 29113 units, which isn't too shabby considering January-March 2024 was zero and April was only 94 units. Lexus GX is also off to a good start as well, and combining Lexus LX unit sales results, it seems like Toyota's decision of not having LC300 series in North America was right, after all. In fact, the TNGA-F platform models have increased US market share by nearly full 1 percent, which is quite a feat.
View attachment 25681
Interesting to see how 2025 4Runner sales will unfold. If they can achieve 120-140K units and keep LC250 and GX units around 30K-35K, there will be barely any cannibalization. We shall see.

It's actually quite funny after looking at these 20 year historical sales numbers and then watching some YouTubers videos. Many of them are not even hiding that Toyota (negative) reviews get lot of views and they are just doing it for the "content".

All being said, I love watching Throttle House. That LC and 4Runner content today was pure GEM.

Welcome to the asylum Thebamboodude.

​

 

[RCFTE]

so,,, here is the US sales unit number for 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Sequoia, Tundra, Lexus GX and LX, along with market overall, from 2005 to 2024. (some numbers here and there might be off, since I did it in like 30min,,, )

LC250 sold 29113 units, which isn't too shabby considering January-March 2024 was zero and April was only 94 units. Lexus GX is also off to a good start as well, and combining Lexus LX unit sales results, it seems like Toyota's decision of not having LC300 series in North America was right, after all. In fact, the TNGA-F platform models have increased US market share by nearly full 1 percent, which is quite a feat.
View attachment 25681
Interesting to see how 2025 4Runner sales will unfold. If they can achieve 120-140K units and keep LC250 and GX units around 30K-35K, there will be barely any cannibalization. We shall see.

It's actually quite funny after looking at these 20 year historical sales numbers and then watching some YouTubers videos. Many of them are not even hiding that Toyota (negative) reviews get lot of views and they are just doing it for the "content".

All being said, I love watching Throttle House. That LC and 4Runner content today was pure GEM.

Excellent information. Actual numbers and stats. I guess Toyota made the right decision.

Thank You.

 

[RCFTE]

If anybody is interested please check out the latest CARWOW Video on YouTube. Very Impressive !

 

[LouNYC]

Full disclosure, I didn't read through all the post. Hate? Only hate you will see is on forums. This goes for most vehicles. I also own a Jeep JL and the forums were filled with complaints. I see about 100 Jeeps daily driving around my town. Everyone loves them.

The Land Cruiser is no different. I have only seen a handful of LC's on the road since I purchased mine in August. I get compliments every single time I park it somewhere. Its a Toyota, they build cars very well. The style is an automatic classic that will age very well. This of course is just my opinion.

 

[Esquire]

Full disclosure, I didn't read through all the post. Hate? Only hate you will see is on forums. This goes for most vehicles. I also own a Jeep JL and the forums were filled with complaints. I see about 100 Jeeps daily driving around my town. Everyone loves them.

The Land Cruiser is no different. I have only seen a handful of LC's on the road since I purchased mine in August. I get compliments every single time I park it somewhere. Its a Toyota, they build cars very well. The style is an automatic classic that will age very well. This of course is just my opinion.

I have owned a number of Jeeps over the years as well. According to the forums, they are unsafe/unreliable/not real jeeps/and depreciate 100 percent within the first week. I have found just the opposite.

I have been active on Rennlist for many years as well. The Porsche forum. It is exactly the same thing. All 911s are unreliable, not real Porsches once they went to water-cooling, the IMS bearing issue was never fixed, etc. Every single 911 I have owned have been flawless and incredibly reliable.

As far as what all YouTubers say....I don't give any of them credit. It's more comedic relief and they're just trying to make a living without having to be disciplined enough to get a good-paying job like the rest of us.
Most of these YouTubers look / dress / talk / write like homeless people on Skid Row. I guess that's "cool" in the YT world. It's far from cool in my world.

 

[RCFTE]

Full disclosure, I didn't read through all the post. Hate? Only hate you will see is on forums. This goes for most vehicles. I also own a Jeep JL and the forums were filled with complaints. I see about 100 Jeeps daily driving around my town. Everyone loves them.

The Land Cruiser is no different. I have only seen a handful of LC's on the road since I purchased mine in August. I get compliments every single time I park it somewhere. Its a Toyota, they build cars very well. The style is an automatic classic that will age very well. This of course is just my opinion.

I agree with 100 percent, it will age very well, just like the FJ Cruiser.

 

[RCFTE]

I have owned a number of Jeeps over the years as well. According to the forums, they are unsafe/unreliable/not real jeeps/and depreciate 100 percent within the first week. I have found just the opposite.

I have been active on Rennlist for many years as well. The Porsche forum. It is exactly the same thing. All 911s are unreliable, not real Porsches once they went to water-cooling, the IMS bearing issue was never fixed, etc. Every single 911 I have owned have been flawless and incredibly reliable.

As far as what all YouTubers say....I don't give any of them credit. It's more comedic relief and they're just trying to make a living without having to be disciplined enough to get a good-paying job like the rest of us.
Most of these YouTubers look / dress / talk / write like homeless people on Skid Row. I guess that's "cool" in the YT world. It's far from cool in my world.

NAILED IT ! PAY THE MAN !

 

[PACruiser]

It helps to remember,tese guys are simply a way for companies to fundamentally reduce the cost of marketing.

There was a dust up in the pro/prosumer camera reviewer community recently. One of the more popular YTs (Gerald Undone) called out everyone for the way they were compromised. and refused to participate in a high visibility product launch for one of the major camera makers.

His concerns were the vendors fly them all out for free, pay for food and lodging, give them a presentation with talking points, hand out product samples to be used only in controlled environments they provide, and then hold them all to the same communication embargo release date.

Alledgedly, this tactic puts unfair pressure on the content providers to please their hosts and also be creative and somewhat controversial in order to differentiate themselves and collectively generate interest when there is not much real news.

Sound familiar?

 

[EOD Guy]

There are a few YT'ers out there that refuse to pitch and take "products" from venders that don't live up to the hype. They won't mention the names (prob for fear of being sued). You can usually figure out who they are referring to by what they are working on and ads that start popping up on other channels.

Much respect for those guys and I'm more likely to take a closer look at what they are using, tool wise, than what they are actually putting on. ie... I've had an "amp clamp" for many years, but it was big and cumbersome and I really didn't use it as much as I should have............ saw a YTer (repair shop) diagnosing an electrical problem and saw what he was using, bought one and now I use it all the time as it has a detachable clamp.