LC Trim base level stereo

[chancellor]

I took it apart today to have a look, no real added complexity from the camera or other speakers. Looks like the JBL system has a different part # for the woofer (86150-60430), not sure what is actually different than the standard LC system. Did your woofer have a 4 wire connector? If so did you get an adapter to connect to the MSW or splice the wires?

Hmm the base LC had a 2 wire connector, did you happen to get a photo or anything? You can see the blue/black cable connecting at the bottom of the speaker of the MSW photo above.

I used the metra 72-8109 wiring harness for all 8 speakers (including the hatch): Amazon.com

I had to trim the spade connectors off the wiring harness and replace with larger ones since the MSW had slightly different wiring connectors

 

[FirstEditionLC2024]

I finally got the rest of the parts in and got everything swapped out. The fataliPro 4" woofer was too large to fit in to the center dash position, but the 8" Morel MSW 265 woofer fit perfectly into the rear hatch. I also picked up an oscilloscope to try and tease out what signal gets sent to to each speaker. There seems to be pretty active DSP on all the channels, which will limit the system performance, no matter what woofer you put in the hatch, it will never go below ~20hz due to the xovers.

20-100hz Rear Hatch Woofer
100-400hz front doors
400-20k L/R dash
1k-20k center dash

didnt test the rear doors, but i think they are full range


I dropped the woofer mounting it and dented the dust cap... But it was the perfect size to fit w/o a bracket, just drill 6x 1/8" holes in the metal to mount it

 

[FirstEditionLC2024]

I’m looking to install a powered shallow subwoofer and usually tap into the vehicles existing subwoofer for inputs since RCA inputs from factory head unit isn’t available. I understand the factory subwoofer in rear hatch is dual purpose for active noise cancelling and narrow range of bass. Did just switching the subwoofer make a big difference despite no addition of an amplifier? Also, do you think tapping into the rear hatch subwoofer as inputs for a powered amp/high pass filter is supplying an adequate signal to supply powered subwoofer? I have the First Edition with JBL 14 speaker setup.

 

[chancellor]

I’m looking to install a powered shallow subwoofer and usually tap into the vehicles existing subwoofer for inputs since RCA inputs from factory head unit isn’t available. I understand the factory subwoofer in rear hatch is dual purpose for active noise cancelling and narrow range of bass. Did just switching the subwoofer make a big difference despite no addition of an amplifier? Also, do you think tapping into the rear hatch subwoofer as inputs for a powered amp/high pass filter is supplying an adequate signal to supply powered subwoofer? I have the First Edition with JBL 14 speaker setup.

For the base 10 speaker system I think just swapping the sub made a pretty big improvement. I can't speak to the JBL system though. The Morel has pretty high sensitivity so it does well without an amp

If the JBL system has the same aggressive crossovers applied to the subwoofer signal, I don't know how much benefit adding an amp would give you when using the sub signal as input.

 

[johnny burb]

I have an LC trim non-premium and wanted to upgrade the stereo. Luckily I have a calibrated UMIK-1 microphone to do some comparisons.

First off I wanted to see what was included with the OEM stereo

I found this press release which matches what i found when i pulled the door panels. It is strange they call it a "10 speaker" system, when there are only 8 channels/physical speakers. I suspect they consider the dash speakers as 2 each since they are 2way.

Location	Description	OEM part
R/L Dash	3.5" (9cm) Full Range (woofer + tweeter) (4ohm)	86160-78070
Center Dash	3.5" (9cm) Midrange (4ohm)	86160-33a50
Front Door	6x9" (18cm) Midrange (4ohm)	86160-78080
Rear Door	6.5" (16cm) Full Range (4ohm)	86160-60700
Tailgate	8" (20cm) midbass (2.5ohm)	86150-60420
Amp	8-Channel class-D	86100-60610

I used a bookshelf speaker wired into each location to try and determine if there were any crossovers. It appears the front door and dash speakers are crossed over around 400hz. These measurments were taken with the same speaker, in the same location, with the same mic, so there has to be something performing xover functions somewhere. Due to this built in crossover, it might not work to use component speakers in the front, you could end up with a dead zone from ~400-2000hz if using just a tweeter instead of the 3.5" dash speakers. The center and rear channels looked mostly flat, and the sub channel in the hatch was low passed to around 200hz (it was hard to measure due to inference from the other speakers). The sub channel was active regardless of the channel balance (front, center, rear)

View attachment 9609

The sub in the LC trim is definitely active, but only from around 20-100hz.

This is a frequency sweep performed with the mic in the drivers seat. The speaker balance was centered, all the bass/mid/high controls were 0'd, and the sweep was played through both L and R channels and the volume at 25, the bass is pretty hot by default

View attachment 9612

I plan to upgrade the speakers, but not the headunit or add an amp. From watching the beatsonic install videos, it appears the base LC trim and the premium both use the same headunit (86100-60610) and the 1958 has a different one (86140-60060)

My plan:
Apply Acoustic deadening to doors and hatch: link (done)
Replace Front door speakers with Infinity Reference 6x9 REF697F (since crossed over, the tweeter will be essentially inactive, and 50% the price of component) (ordered)
- Using Metra 82-8146 with extra holes drilled into bracket
Replace rear door speakers with Infinity Reference REF607F 6.5" (done)
- Included brackets fit the door, but need 2 small mounting holes drilled into the door
Replace Side Dash speakers with either infinity reference REF407F (if they can squeeze in) or REF307F (4" ordered, should test them this week)
Replace Center Dash speaker with FaitalPRO 4FE32 (ordered)
Replace Hatch Woofer with Morel MSW 265 (ordered)
- Shallow mount 8", will cut a bracket out of plastic cutting board if needed

Parts:
Speaker wiring Harness: Amazon.com
replacement small clips: Amazon.com
replacement large trim clips Amazon.com

Hello! Do you know if the wiring harness you linked works for the stock jbl speakers as well? All speakers/locations? Thank you!

 

[chancellor]

Hello! Do you know if the wiring harness you linked works for the stock jbl speakers as well? All speakers/locations? Thank you!

I am not sure what the JBL system uses for connectors, I imagine the are the same but theres no way to know without someone checking. It's not too hard to pull one of the dash speakers out to see what connector that has

 

[Lenny33]

I have the medium trim as well. If a person was going to piece things in one at a time, would you say the dash or sub is the biggest first improvement?

And thanks for sharing your knowledge!

 

[chancellor]

I have the medium trim as well. If a person was going to piece things in one at a time, would you say the dash or sub is the biggest first improvement?

And thanks for sharing your knowledge!

That's a good question, it really comes down to what you want to improve and what kind of music you listen to.



If you listen to hip hop/pop with heavy bass, I would upgrade the front doors and sub

If you want clearer more detailed guitar/vocals/piano, go for the dash.

I would do the center dash and rear doors last, could probably leave those OEM and never know the difference

If you just want the easiest cheapest first step, the dash is the answer.

Can grab these Infinity 3032cf for $55 (these are just the previous model of REF407f and should be basically identical, dont forget the speaker harness)

To swap the dash, just need to pop off the speaker covers and remove 2 bolts, unplug the existing speaker (probably the hardest part getting the stupid connector to release) , and bolt the new ones in.

If you are going through the effort to pull the door/hatch panels and replace speakers, i highly recommend grabbing some cheap sound deading and throwing some on the sheet metal behind the speaker and any where else you can:

 

[TrailWhale]

If you want clearer more detailed guitar/vocals/piano, go for the dash.

This is me, and this is why I’m planning on only upgrading the dash speakers.

 

[SOCAL250]

That's a good question, it really comes down to what you want to improve and what kind of music you listen to.



If you listen to hip hop/pop with heavy bass, I would upgrade the front doors and sub

If you want clearer more detailed guitar/vocals/piano, go for the dash.

I would do the center dash and rear doors last, could probably leave those OEM and never know the difference

If you just want the easiest cheapest first step, the dash is the answer.

Can grab these Infinity 3032cf for $55 (these are just the previous model of REF407f and should be basically identical, dont forget the speaker harness)

To swap the dash, just need to pop off the speaker covers and remove 2 bolts, unplug the existing speaker (probably the hardest part getting the stupid connector to release) , and bolt the new ones in.

If you are going through the effort to pull the door/hatch panels and replace speakers, i highly recommend grabbing some cheap sound deading and throwing some on the sheet metal behind the speaker and any where else you can:

Wow Thanks that's perfect fit. What do you recommend for Front door speakers where I can just drop it in like that? I have the JBL premium setup.

 

[BigMF]

Hmm the base LC had a 2 wire connector, did you happen to get a photo or anything? You can see the blue/black cable connecting at the bottom of the speaker of the MSW photo above.

@chancellor , thank you for this great thread!

Did anyone figure out the 4 wire connector for the sub in the back? Here are some pictures of the connetor and the speaker where it plugs in:

Additionally, the wiring for the Premium JBL 14-speaker system is definitely not straightfoward in my opinion. For example, the mid-range speakers in the rear doors do NOT work unless the tweeters are ALSO plugged in. I discovered this when I took the interior panel off which included disconneting the tweeter. The mid-range would produce no sound until I plugged that wire to the tweeter back in.

I'm also looking to hook up a powered sub and looking for signal source. Curious if the 4 wires to the sub are for pos/neg for both left and right. Don't know if that even makes sense but neither does running 4 wires to one speaker.

Lastly, does anyone know where the OEM amp is located in the LC trim with Premium JBL system?

 

[Fangdang25o]

Too many years in the biological sciences..

I wish I know half of what you have just said..

I feel this..

 

[chancellor]

@chancellor , thank you for this great thread!

Did anyone figure out the 4 wire connector for the sub in the back? Here are some pictures of the connetor and the speaker where it plugs in:

View attachment 15634 View attachment 15635

Additionally, the wiring for the Premium JBL 14-speaker system is definitely not straightfoward in my opinion. For example, the mid-range speakers in the rear doors do NOT work unless the tweeters are ALSO plugged in. I discovered this when I took the interior panel off which included disconneting the tweeter. The mid-range would produce no sound until I plugged that wire to the tweeter back in.

I'm also looking to hook up a powered sub and looking for signal source. Curious if the 4 wires to the sub are for pos/neg for both left and right. Don't know if that even makes sense but neither does running 4 wires to one speaker.

Lastly, does anyone know where the OEM amp is located in the LC trim with Premium JBL system?

I think what you describe when the midrange stop working when the tweeters are removed is caused by crossovers in the tweeters. They also have 4 wires going: 2 full range in, 2 low pass filtered (maybe?) out to the woofers. This thread documents tweeter replacement well

I suspect that is the same reason you see 4 wires into the sub on the jbl ( the base only has 2). There is probably a crossover in the sub, and the extra 2 wires out feed the extra speakers in the hatch that the JBL has. If you disconnect the sub, do those hatch speakers also stop?

 

[BigMF]

I think what you describe when the midrange stop working when the tweeters are removed is caused by crossovers in the tweeters. They also have 4 wires going: 2 full range in, 2 low pass filtered (maybe?) out to the woofers. This thread documents tweeter replacement well

I suspect that is the same reason you see 4 wires into the sub on the jbl ( the base only has 2). There is probably a crossover in the sub, and the extra 2 wires out feed the extra speakers in the hatch that the JBL has. If you disconnect the sub, do those hatch speakers also stop?

Yeah, I've done some more Googling and searching on here and realized it was probably the crossover for the door speakers. However, the rear hatch speakers continue to work with the sub is disconnected. Maybe it's a dual voice coil? I'm not sure exactly what that means but that's what I found when I Googled "4 wires going into 1 sub". My powered sub is looking for a left and right signal so I'm wondering if I can splice into those 4 wires going into the sub?

I used to do a fair amount of car audio stuff back in the day but it was much easier when you were planning the whole system from the ground up, and not trying to reverse-engineer what already exists and then figure out how to use it.

FYI, I tried using the BH10 speaker harness from Beat-Sonic that is supposed to provide output lines for a powered subwoofer. I can get that to work.....sorta. The powered sub DOES produce sound but the volume does not change along with the head unit. In other words, I can have the volume knob in the dash all the way down to zero or all the way up to Max and the output on the sub does not change a bit.

 

[Gabel1]

Following.

 

[BigMF]

BTW,

@chancellor , thank you for this great thread!

Did anyone figure out the 4 wire connector for the sub in the back? Here are some pictures of the connetor and the speaker where it plugs in:

View attachment 15634 View attachment 15635

I'm also looking to hook up a powered sub and looking for signal source. Curious if the 4 wires to the sub are for pos/neg for both left and right. Don't know if that even makes sense but neither does running 4 wires to one speaker.

BTW, I found that when I tapped into those 4 wires and ran them to my powered sub, I was able to get a signal that worked and controlled the volume on the sub.

 

[SOCAL250]

I finally got the rest of the parts in and got everything swapped out. The fataliPro 4" woofer was too large to fit in to the center dash position, but the 8" Morel MSW 265 woofer fit perfectly into the rear hatch. I also picked up an oscilloscope to try and tease out what signal gets sent to to each speaker. There seems to be pretty active DSP on all the channels, which will limit the system performance, no matter what woofer you put in the hatch, it will never go below ~20hz due to the xovers.

20-100hz Rear Hatch Woofer
100-400hz front doors
400-20k L/R dash
1k-20k center dash

didnt test the rear doors, but i think they are full range


I dropped the woofer mounting it and dented the dust cap... But it was the perfect size to fit w/o a bracket, just drill 6x 1/8" holes in the metal to mount itView attachment 10461

were you able the measure the depth of the subwoofer or the mounting hole?I am planning to get a JL 4 inch deep woofer. Let me know thanks!

 

[chancellor]

were you able the measure the depth of the subwoofer or the mounting hole?I am planning to get a JL 4 inch deep woofer. Let me know thanks!

I wrote these measurements down when i had things apart:

Hole diameter: 8"
Screw diameter: 9.5"
Raw Depth (sheet metal to sheet metal): 3.5"
Max Depth (sub mounted to bracket): 4"