LC Trim base level stereo

[chancellor]

I have an LC trim non-premium and wanted to upgrade the stereo. Luckily I have a calibrated UMIK-1 microphone to do some comparisons.

First off I wanted to see what was included with the OEM stereo

I found this press release which matches what i found when i pulled the door panels. It is strange they call it a "10 speaker" system, when there are only 8 channels/physical speakers. I suspect they consider the dash speakers as 2 each since they are 2way.

Location	Description	OEM part
R/L Dash	3.5" (9cm) Full Range (woofer + tweeter) (4ohm)	86160-78070
Center Dash	3.5" (9cm) Midrange (4ohm)	86160-33a50
Front Door	6x9" (18cm) Midrange (4ohm)	86160-78080
Rear Door	6.5" (16cm) Full Range (4ohm)	86160-60700
Tailgate	8" (20cm) midbass (2.5ohm)	86150-60420
Amp	8-Channel class-D	86100-60610

I used a bookshelf speaker wired into each location to try and determine if there were any crossovers. It appears the front door and dash speakers are crossed over around 400hz. These measurments were taken with the same speaker, in the same location, with the same mic, so there has to be something performing xover functions somewhere. Due to this built in crossover, it might not work to use component speakers in the front, you could end up with a dead zone from ~400-2000hz if using just a tweeter instead of the 3.5" dash speakers. The center and rear channels looked mostly flat, and the sub channel in the hatch was low passed to around 200hz (it was hard to measure due to inference from the other speakers). The sub channel was active regardless of the channel balance (front, center, rear)

The sub in the LC trim is definitely active, but only from around 20-100hz.

This is a frequency sweep performed with the mic in the drivers seat. The speaker balance was centered, all the bass/mid/high controls were 0'd, and the sweep was played through both L and R channels and the volume at 25, the bass is pretty hot by default

I plan to upgrade the speakers, but not the headunit or add an amp. From watching the beatsonic install videos, it appears the base LC trim and the premium both use the same headunit (86100-60610) and the 1958 has a different one (86140-60060)

My plan:
Apply Acoustic deadening to doors and hatch: link (done)
Replace Front door speakers with Infinity Reference 6x9 REF697F (since crossed over, the tweeter will be essentially inactive, and 50% the price of component) (ordered)
- Using Metra 82-8146 with extra holes drilled into bracket
Replace rear door speakers with Infinity Reference REF607F 6.5" (done)
- Included brackets fit the door, but need 2 small mounting holes drilled into the door
Replace Side Dash speakers with either infinity reference REF407F (if they can squeeze in) or REF307F (4" ordered, should test them this week)
Replace Center Dash speaker with FaitalPRO 4FE32 (ordered)
Replace Hatch Woofer with Morel MSW 265 (ordered)
- Shallow mount 8", will cut a bracket out of plastic cutting board if needed

Parts:
Speaker wiring Harness: Amazon.com
replacement small clips: Amazon.com
replacement large trim clips Amazon.com

 

[TrailWhale]

This is super handy info, thanks for measuring!

That response aligns with my impressions. I'm actually pretty impressed with the front door speakers, they are punchy and feel pretty tight.

Mids are fair but things get a little muddy as you get to the high-mids. EQ helps a little.

When your dash drivers arrive, I'd love to see some pictures from your installation. Those are what could use some love, in my opinion.

 

[chancellor]

This is super handy info, thanks for measuring!

That response aligns with my impressions. I'm actually pretty impressed with the front door speakers, they are punchy and feel pretty tight.

Mids are fair but things get a little muddy as you get to the high-mids. EQ helps a little.

When your dash drivers arrive, I'd love to see some pictures from your installation. Those are what could use some love, in my opinion.

Thanks! The 4" dash speakers should be here Wednesday. I think they will have the biggest impact since those are doing the bulk of the driving for anything 4-500hz and up. Hence why i am trying the 4", I am pretty sure i can get it to fit on the passenger side, but the hole on the driver side isn't very deep and might cause issues getting the larger driver in there. Worst case I will fall back to the 3.5" and figure out some bracket.

 

[JustinHEMI]

Great info! Subbed for future updates. I also have an LC non-premium and was wondering what we had, thank you for the great details!

 

[chancellor]

The 4" REF407F speakers are just a touch too big I think. The mounting brackets align with the screw holes, and one can barely squeeze on the passenger side, but the AC vent is too high on the drivers side, so the speaker sticks up half and inch or so too high. I have the 3.5" coming later today to try.

With most of the speakers replaced (dash, front and rear doors) with infinity reference, the sound is pretty amazing. Much tighter bass with no rattles or bottoming out. My Morel 8" sub and center channel should be arriving this weekend, hopefully they will fit w/o too much trouble.

I still have a hole around 200hz that i suspect is coming from the factory crossover between the sub and front doors

 

[TrailWhale]

Do those dash speaker grills pop off or is there some tools required?

(The last car stereo upgrade I performed was 23 years ago, on my '97 VW Golf, so I'm a little out of practice!)

 

[chancellor]

Do those dash speaker grills pop off or is there some tools required?

(The last car stereo upgrade I performed was 23 years ago, on my '97 VW Golf, so I'm a little out of practice!)

They pull straight up from the front and sort of hinge on the back. It is helpful to use a flat trim tool to pry it, but be careful b/c the dash is soft

 

[TrailWhale]

Let me know how the 3.5" infinitys work out in the dash. I'm feeling like upgrading just those could be a pretty nice upgrade overall, and leave doors/sub alone since I'm already happy with low end response.

How/why did you decide on the FaitalPRO 4FE32 for that center dash driver? I'm not familiar with the brand, let alone the model.

 

[chancellor]

Let me know how the 3.5" infinitys work out in the dash. I'm feeling like upgrading just those could be a pretty nice upgrade overall, and leave doors/sub alone since I'm already happy with low end response.

How/why did you decide on the FaitalPRO 4FE32 for that center dash driver? I'm not familiar with the brand, let alone the model.

The dash speakers are the easiest upgrade you can do, and I have a feeling the most noticeable

I wasn't sure what to get for the center speaker, since it is only a 3.5" woofer and no tweeter, there aren't a ton of options for something like that. Was looking for something with decent frequency response and good sensitivity close to the infinity speakers (92-93dB) that would also fit the space. I stumbled on this one, the hole pattern is exact, and the height should fit

FaitalPRO 4FE32 4" Neodymium Professional Full-Range Woofer 4 Ohm

FaitalPRO 4FE32 4" Neodymium Professional Full-Range Woofer 4 OhmFaitalPRO's 4FE32 4" neodymium professional woofer has exceptionally flat response from 90 Hz to 9,000 Hz, both on and off-axis, and features a 91 dB sensitivity due to a powerful neodymium ring motor. Great for use in compact...

www.parts-express.com

 

[chancellor]

The 3.5" REF307F fit much easier in the dash spots. The mounting bracket is about 5mm too short to reach both screws, but i built a platform out of sound dampening material that seems to hold it well enough

I wish i had taken a side by side, the 3.5" is almost half the size of the 4", and very close to the OEM speaker

 

[chancellor]

I finally got the rest of the parts in and got everything swapped out. The fataliPro 4" woofer was too large to fit in to the center dash position, but the 8" Morel MSW 265 woofer fit perfectly into the rear hatch. I also picked up an oscilloscope to try and tease out what signal gets sent to to each speaker. There seems to be pretty active DSP on all the channels, which will limit the system performance, no matter what woofer you put in the hatch, it will never go below ~20hz due to the xovers.

20-100hz Rear Hatch Woofer
100-400hz front doors
400-20k L/R dash
1k-20k center dash

didnt test the rear doors, but i think they are full range


I dropped the woofer mounting it and dented the dust cap... But it was the perfect size to fit w/o a bracket, just drill 6x 1/8" holes in the metal to mount it

 

[mkg]

I asked in another thread but saw this one, but does upgrading the woofer make any difference with the current power/low pass filter in place?

 

[chancellor]

Even though the frequencies are almost identical, there is a a +3db boost from 20-50hz. That made a pretty big improvement to the sound quality. I completely lined the back hatch with sound deadening before upgrading the woofer, which made a big improvement too. The bass is a lot more precise now too, before it was just non-descript boomyness, now its much tighter and detailed.

No matter what i do, i can not get that dip at 200hz to improve. I suspect this is caused by the crossovers they use. Looks like the sub is like a 24db slope down but then the doors are only a +12db slope up, leaving a gap

There seems to be a crossover on the sub with a 24db/octave that passes 40-100hz

 

[ultane]

Too many years in the biological sciences..

I wish I know half of what you have just said..

 

[TrailWhale]

The 3.5" REF307F fit much easier in the dash spots. The mounting bracket is about 5mm too short to reach both screws, but i built a platform out of sound dampening material that seems to hold it well enough

I wish i had taken a side by side, the 3.5" is almost half the size of the 4", and very close to the OEM speaker

I wonder if this adapter would be just the right size needed to properly mount the infinity in the wider area.

The only reason you couldn’t use the 4” infinitys was depth right? I might look around for shallower 4” options, but the venerable Infinity Reference has always been the gold standard as far as I recall!

 

[chancellor]

The main reason the 4" wouldn't fit was depth, they also have 4 mounting brackets (vs 2 on the 3.5") which make them a little too wide. With the way the crossovers are configured (at least on my LC trim 10 speaker base stereo) blocking any signal below 200hz, I don't know if there will be much advantage for 4" over 3.5". The REF307F come with an optional high pass crossover at like 156hz that i did not use since it was already x-overed at the source

The 3" 307f fits good enough with out a bracket, I imagine they would be too large for the ones you linked. You can still get one of the bolts to attach through the mounting bracket, and the other side just reaches close enough to the hole that the washer from the bolt grabs it. this pic shows w/o the 2nd bolt, but it provides a solid enough connection for me

Since the midrange woofer I ordered didnt fit the center, I ended up swapping things around, using the 3.5" for the left dash and center, and one of the 4" for the right dash. The places I had to screw into metal, i used the screw brackets the came w/ the infinity speakers to give a little more secure connection

Location	replacement	notes
R Dash	infinity reference REF307F	close to OEM fit
Center Dash	infinity reference REF307F	barely fit depth, rests on top of head unit
L Dash	infinity reference REF407F	barely fit diameter, had to cut off a mounting bracket
Front Doors	infinity reference REF697F	bracket: Metra 82-8146 with 2x extra holes in bracket
Rear Doors	infinity reference REF607F	bracket: included w/ speakers, 2x 1/8" holes in metal for screws
Tailgate	Morel MSW 265	direct mount, 6x 1/8" holes in metal

 

[chancellor]

I wonder if this adapter would be just the right size needed to properly mount the infinity in the wider area.

The only reason you couldn’t use the 4” infinitys was depth right? I might look around for shallower 4” options, but the venerable Infinity Reference has always been the gold standard as far as I recall!

One other reason i dont think that adapter would work, the mounts in the toyota are bipolar (one on each side) and that BMW mount uses 3 mounting holes so they wont align

 

[AndrewTK]

I finally got the rest of the parts in and got everything swapped out. The fataliPro 4" woofer was too large to fit in to the center dash position, but the 8" Morel MSW 265 woofer fit perfectly into the rear hatch. I also picked up an oscilloscope to try and tease out what signal gets sent to to each speaker. There seems to be pretty active DSP on all the channels, which will limit the system performance, no matter what woofer you put in the hatch, it will never go below ~20hz due to the xovers.

20-100hz Rear Hatch Woofer
100-400hz front doors
400-20k L/R dash
1k-20k center dash

didnt test the rear doors, but i think they are full range


I dropped the woofer mounting it and dented the dust cap... But it was the perfect size to fit w/o a bracket, just drill 6x 1/8" holes in the metal to mount itView attachment 10461

How involved was the hatch panel removal? I have a premium with the JBL but i suspect its running the same sub as the standard and I am thinking about ordering the MSW 265 as well

 

[chancellor]

How involved was the hatch panel removal? I have a premium with the JBL but i suspect its running the same sub as the standard and I am thinking about ordering the MSW 265 as well

It was not too bad. The whole trim piece is held on with the little white clips, no screws or other connectors. I am not sure if the FE/premium adds more complexity with the extra speakers and camera though.

If you are just trying to reach the speaker in the hatch, i think that it's possible to get to it with only prying up the bottom part of the main trim, just need to feed the control panel on the bottom through the hole.

If you want to take the whole thing out:
1) open the hatch window (hatch closed) and remove the trim piece around the wiper motor
2) open the hatch, start removing trim from the top of the hatch down. It comes off as a top piece, 2 sides, and the huge main part

 

[AndrewTK]

It was not too bad. The whole trim piece is held on with the little white clips, no screws or other connectors. I am not sure if the FE/premium adds more complexity with the extra speakers and camera though.

If you are just trying to reach the speaker in the hatch, i think that it's possible to get to it with only prying up the bottom part of the main trim, just need to feed the control panel on the bottom through the hole.

If you want to take the whole thing out:
1) open the hatch window (hatch closed) and remove the trim piece around the wiper motor
2) open the hatch, start removing trim from the top of the hatch down. It comes off as a top piece, 2 sides, and the huge main part

I took it apart today to have a look, no real added complexity from the camera or other speakers. Looks like the JBL system has a different part # for the woofer (86150-60430), not sure what is actually different than the standard LC system. Did your woofer have a 4 wire connector? If so did you get an adapter to connect to the MSW or splice the wires?