Hybrid longevity
- Thread starter jhiller
- Start date
Just consider the battery a maintenance item like a timing belt replacement. By the time the battery needs to be replaced, it won’t be that expensive. Toyota knows hybrids better than anyone
Many years ago when the tech was new, having a battery go bad in a Toyota hybrid was the kiss of death. I knew someone that was quoted $10K for a whole new battery, and this was +10 years ago. The car was worth maybe that? Now, they replace the 'bad cell' and not the whole battery, or replace the whole thing with a reman'ed battery (bad cells replaced). There is a cottage industry of folks that do this as well on older hybrids. Drastically cheaper, think >$1000 vs. $1,000's. The battery tech has improved by leaps and bounds as well.
On longevity of Toyota hybrid, we’re still driving our 2012 Pirus with 215k miles on original hybrid battery pack and so far, the only the major work has been brakes at 185k and water pump at 205k. Battery pack is still holding decent amount of charge and averaging 48mpg on regular commute.
When battery pack does go, we’ve got $2k budgeted for replacement at our local shop and refurbished battery pack is readily available.
When battery pack does go, we’ve got $2k budgeted for replacement at our local shop and refurbished battery pack is readily available.
Im doing a battery delete kit when it goes south. We will be using nuclear fusion by then....
The reason for my Cruiser is because someone totaled my 17 Camry Hybrid with 174k. I owned a Prius before that. Toyota batteries last much longer than other hybrids, and are serviceable (can replace cells) as others have stated. I would not worry about it.
However, what you can control is ventilation to the battery. IIRC, just open your rear doors and look at the vents behind the seats on the side. You'll want to check the "filters" or "screens" in them annually or semi annually. They can get clogged with dust. Do this and you should be good for a long time.
However, what you can control is ventilation to the battery. IIRC, just open your rear doors and look at the vents behind the seats on the side. You'll want to check the "filters" or "screens" in them annually or semi annually. They can get clogged with dust. Do this and you should be good for a long time.
Notwithstanding battery life concerns, I’m not sure why we should be overly concerned about Toyota electrical systems. I owned my last LC for 22 years, having bought it new. Over that time period, I paid a fair sum of money to replace worn parts but very little on electrical items.
My dad always viewed car options / features as “one more thing that’s going to break”. Though I was glad that the 1958 lacks the cool box, it was not because I was worried about its longevity.
My dad always viewed car options / features as “one more thing that’s going to break”. Though I was glad that the 1958 lacks the cool box, it was not because I was worried about its longevity.
I sold a 2012 Toyota PHEV Prius I had for 12 years and over 150K miles to get money for the LC 
. I think it was a first generation plug in at the time and it was flawless. Replaced nothing but fluids and consumables on the maintenance schedule and never had a single issue.
If I remember correctly, the LC has an 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty on the hybrid sub-system so I am not very worried. Keep in mind the Prius hybrid system is very different than ours. The I-Force Max was specifically selected for robustness and the ability to still use the well proven drive trains from its traditional 4WD/AWD systems. (gear boxes, transfer cases, drive shafts, differentials etc.)
If you haven't seen it already, the video link below from Toyota provides a nice summary of how the two hybrid systems work, and why they are different.
Toyota Hybrid Video
. I think it was a first generation plug in at the time and it was flawless. Replaced nothing but fluids and consumables on the maintenance schedule and never had a single issue.If I remember correctly, the LC has an 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty on the hybrid sub-system so I am not very worried. Keep in mind the Prius hybrid system is very different than ours. The I-Force Max was specifically selected for robustness and the ability to still use the well proven drive trains from its traditional 4WD/AWD systems. (gear boxes, transfer cases, drive shafts, differentials etc.)
If you haven't seen it already, the video link below from Toyota provides a nice summary of how the two hybrid systems work, and why they are different.
Toyota Hybrid Video
The “longevity” of a car is the difference between the remaining value and maintenance cost of a car. The equation is still the same, not much is changed. Only considerations are weighted slightly different for Land Cruiser.
I have a first gen Prius Prime, which is the second time Toyota ever put a Lithium in a production car. The cost to replace it would be $10-11K. I expect this number would be slightly higher over the years instead of cheaper given the labor and inflation. Prius Prime is a cheaper car that after 10 + years its remaining value would drop to less than $10K. This would still mean that once the battery go bad, it is a kiss goodbye event.
For Land Cruiser, I would expect the battery to be significantly cheaper. It uses the same type and capacity of battery from regular Prius. Which we know well today that replacement would be $3~4K. This number with inflation would still be less than $5000 10-15 years from now. Land Cruiser is a luxury vehicle especially for higher trim like First Edition or these that has undergone huge aftermarket mod. I assume a reasonable LC after 15 years would still has 1/4 of its original value, which would be around $15-20K give or take. So the death of hybrid battery would be significant still, but not enough to kill an old Land Cruiser.
Having that said, I would worry more about the turbo engine. It might actually be the weakest link in the whole car. I estimate the cost to replace it would be $15K by the time we need to do so, and it is still not a proven component from Toyota. So the remaining value of our LC might be largely depended on the result from test of time of this engine. If it holds well, our car would worth just as much as other LC like J200/J150/J100. If it turns out to be a disappointment, the market value of our J250 will sink considerably and any major component failure would mean the end of life cycle for this car.
Toyota has sold about six million Priuses at this point. No inordinate reliability issues I’m aware of.
It’s not a risk free world but in the context of adopting a new technology I don’t really see this as a big leap.
It’s not a risk free world but in the context of adopting a new technology I don’t really see this as a big leap.
On the turbos. People don’t realize that almost all engines in long haul semi trucks and commercial airplanes use turbochargers, and those engines run long, long, long. I realize the semis are diesel but the turbos work the same way.
The auto industry probably hurried turbo technology into cars in the early 80s in response to the 70s gas crisis and those weren’t quite ready for service. A reputation got built there, but in fact the turbo technology in today’s vehicles is far removed from what you had in your Fox body Mustang. Globally there are millions upon millions of turbo engines running, and it’s been like that for a pretty long time now.
The auto industry probably hurried turbo technology into cars in the early 80s in response to the 70s gas crisis and those weren’t quite ready for service. A reputation got built there, but in fact the turbo technology in today’s vehicles is far removed from what you had in your Fox body Mustang. Globally there are millions upon millions of turbo engines running, and it’s been like that for a pretty long time now.
I was born in '76, and in that time I've only heard of one (1) turbo issue from discussions with friends/family/co-workers. Knowing that guy, he probably used the cheapest oil in he could get his hands on.
My personal experience on turbos is my wife's 123k-mile N55. Changed the plugs on it recently and they were bone dry, telling me the turbo seals are still good. We don't warm or cool down that car, either. And my wife has a heavier foot than I do.
My personal experience on turbos is my wife's 123k-mile N55. Changed the plugs on it recently and they were bone dry, telling me the turbo seals are still good. We don't warm or cool down that car, either. And my wife has a heavier foot than I do.
The semi truck analogy is spot on. Many semi's run an inline 4 cyl with turbo. These trucks run heavy loads for mega miles. Im not worried about this at all. Im more worried about spilling coffee on my cloth seats.....
I had an F10 with an N55. Heck of a motor, though the F10 platform looked better than it drove. The E60 I had before it was much more fun!
For the record I was not talking about the reliability of turbo engines I was talking about "the turbo engine" that was used on J250. Even previous gen V8 was not considered to be a totally solid design sometimes, let alone this new engine. Toyota recently has proven to us how a solid engine in the lab could become (relatively) unreliable engine. Only time and large amount of field uses can prove it.
Noted that given this is a "Land Cruiser" so the bar for public would be quite high. Land Cruiser was good not only because if you use it as instructed in manual it can last a long time, but also even if you use it out of its original spec it can still work like you can count your life on it type of car. Now everybody just keep saying "you have to change the fluid more strictly than mentioned in the manual". So wait for another 10 years we can then tell how many of these engine can last from the recommended 10K miles fluid change interval.
Noted that given this is a "Land Cruiser" so the bar for public would be quite high. Land Cruiser was good not only because if you use it as instructed in manual it can last a long time, but also even if you use it out of its original spec it can still work like you can count your life on it type of car. Now everybody just keep saying "you have to change the fluid more strictly than mentioned in the manual". So wait for another 10 years we can then tell how many of these engine can last from the recommended 10K miles fluid change interval.
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Absolutely. Commercial trucks have been running 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder turbos for 50 plus years. And they are pulling 80,000 lbs generally over 100k miles per year.
Comparing these new turbo engines (especially Toyota) to the old 80's and 90's turbos you would find in a Saab 900/9000 are not remotely the same.
Additionally, airplanes have been using turbo engines for both small private aircraft and commercial aircraft for decades. Lycoming and Continental turbo engines have been the ultra reliable engine choice by Cessna (Textron which owns the majority of private single engine and private jet manufacturers), Cirrus, etc.
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I know, but there is such a narrative around the demise of the 4.0. Comments on any social media post about these vehicles are 80% people griping and laying FUD about the new engine. So I bring it up.
Chances are, whatever device you’re reading this on hadn’t been invented yet when Toyota began selling the Prius. A few people here might not have been born yet.
There is a 100% chance that Toyota is aware of the risk to their reliability brand posed by the move to turbo and hybrid engines. Also a 100% chance they are extremely ticked off about having more than one misstep on a new engine rollout in a short period of time, even if the one we all heard about was a tooling calibration issue versus a design problem. I am very confident that Toyota will stand behind these cars.
