Who is paying over MSRP?

[bluebullet]

Ok that’s good - we are looking at an SR5 .. they are all at a premium still even used low mileage- I just looked up safety/crash test & then scrolled down and read the complaints (which is was very surprised by) and thought well that sucks because I don’t know another Reliable-SUV 4WD- to put him in - that’s funny I had a 99 as well it went forever and was still going when I gave it away- and I owned a 2012 OR and I loved both of them (wish I hadn’t looked up the safety) more than likely that’s what we are doing though- looking at Michelin X-ice Snow tire for it - do you have an opinion on that tire?
Anyway thanks for the input !!

We run Michelin LTX M/S Defenders with a 90K mile warranty. They are good in snow.

Michelin's New Defender Tire Boasts 90,000 Mile Warranty

Michelin's New Defender Tire Boasts 90,000 Mile Warranty

www.popularmechanics.com

I typically get 50K miles with our chip seal highways being hard on tires. I don't know anything about the Ice Snow tires but expect they have softer compounds for improved traction (less mileage). i just make certain tires are rotated often enough to validate warranty issues. I did replace the stock alloy rims trashed by winter conditions with some newer SR5 take offs. Going to the 17" rims with the larger tire corrected the inherent speedo error of 2-4% to be spot on accordiing to GPS on my phone. Toyota engineers teamed up with the lawyers to have speedometers read 2-4% lower for legal reasons.

My understanding is Toyota likes to use p rated tires e.g. Dunlops to cut expenses and provide a softer, smoother ride. Lighter in weight they provide improved gas mileage. They are usually good for 20K miles.

 

[JoT.]

We run Michelin LTX M/S Defenders with a 90K mile warranty. They are good in snow.

Michelin's New Defender Tire Boasts 90,000 Mile Warranty

Michelin's New Defender Tire Boasts 90,000 Mile Warranty

www.popularmechanics.com

I typically get 50K miles with our chip seal highways being hard on tires. I don't know anything about the Ice Snow tires but expect they have softer compounds for improved traction (less mileage). i just make certain tires are rotated often enough to validate warranty issues. I did replace the stock alloy rims trashed by winter conditions with some newer SR5 take offs. Going to the 17" rims with the larger tire corrected the inherent speedo error of 2-4% to be spot on accordiing to GPS on my phone. Toyota engineers teamed up with the lawyers to have speedometers read 2-4% lower for legal reasons.

My understanding is Toyota likes to use p rated tires e.g. Dunlops to cut expenses and provide a softer, smoother ride. Lighter in weight they provide improved gas mileage. They are usually good for 20K miles.

Wow.. thanks this is very helpful information that is also very appreciated - Bozeman will be different from our winters.. so I thank you for the suggestions.

 

[Kevin]

I can't say enough good things about these tires.

I have Michelin LTX M/S Defender tires on my AWD Dodge Durango. Currently with 75K miles and 7/32" tread depth remaining, so they should easily go 100K+ miles before I replace them at 4/32". They are quiet on the highway and excellent in our snowy Minnesota winters.

 

[qberg]

Ok that’s good - we are looking at an SR5 .. they are all at a premium still even used low mileage- I just looked up safety/crash test & then scrolled down and read the complaints (which is was very surprised by) and thought well that sucks because I don’t know another Reliable-SUV 4WD- to put him in - that’s funny I had a 99 as well it went forever and was still going when I gave it away- and I owned a 2012 OR and I loved both of them (wish I hadn’t looked up the safety) more than likely that’s what we are doing though- looking at Michelin X-ice Snow tire for it - do you have an opinion on that tire?
Anyway thanks for the input !!

As far as safety ratings, we are very much at the point where circumstance and luck will determine the outcome more than a 5 star rated car against a 3 star rated car. A modern 3 star 4800lb SUV colliding with a modern 3000lb sedan doesn't care one bit about that 5 star rating. Just like that badly secured pipe on the roof of the contractor's 1980s pickup doesn't car about the 4Runner's 4800lbs when it flies through the 4Runner's windshield. Your 1999 4Runner was significantly less safe than a modern one despite being 4/5 star rated at the time. The vehicle not completely collapsing was enough for those ratings back then. Now they track intrusion into the cabin, dummy kinematics, etc. We really are in a golden age of automotive safety where the difference between something rated middling by modern standards is closer to a modern top rating than it is to top rated from 20 years ago. Where and how defensively you drive is more important than which modern car you are in.

I have Michelin X-ice on my 4Runner and the passenger car version on my wife's MINI Cooper S Clubman. Very, very happy with those tires. Great grip in snow and especially cold, wet roads. They are very quiet and wear very well, too. I've done 4 seasons on mine and they look nearly new. I kinda hate putting my ATs back on every spring because the X-ice are so nice to live with on a daily basis.

 

[bluebullet]

Good to hear about X-ice. Any hint of competition Michelin just dials it up a notch. No humans allowed in the production area of their SC plant I hear. They just screw things up.

 

[LC-120]

Guys, there is another topic regarding the tires. It would be easier to find if somebody looks for info.

Regarding the crazy mark-ups the dealers know they will get just a few LCs in 2024. And they are sure some clients want it badly.

 

[tbounds02]

you are correct . just not sure I want to eat the mark up upon resale in 2-4 years.
Does the forum think the FE will hold it value compared to the Land Cruiser Premium .
Lets say the FE is $82K and LC prem is $74 K today . will there still be $10k difference when selling or trading ?
I don't think it will will it bring more I am sure it will just because it will be FE , but will it make up the ADM charges?

 

[qberg]

you are correct . just not sure I want to eat the mark up upon resale in 2-4 years.
Does the forum think the FE will hold it value compared to the Land Cruiser Premium .
Lets say the FE is $82K and LC prem is $74 K today . will there still be $10k difference when selling or trading ?
I don't think it will will it bring more I am sure it will just because it will be FE , but will it make up the ADM charges?

IMO, that difference will not hold up in the 2nd hand market. The First Edition is cool, BUT, it doesn't add anything that is both very desirable and very difficult to retrofit. The interior touches are nice, but most won't notice not having them. The headlights, maybe? Roof rack, rock sliders, mud flaps... all easy to add. They should have done the First Edition in special colors, IMO.

 

[tbounds02]

I guess I should have worded my question differently I know it won’t be worth 8-10 k more. But % wise depreciation be equal or not ?
Say the LC Premium drops 15% in 2 years , will FE drop more or less ?
I know it’s an unknown , but asking for a friend LOL

 

[tbounds02]

I know back in 2021 the TRD Pro Tundra was hard to come by very limited and large mark up , compared to the Tundra 1794 . Now both no mark ups and discounts on both my dealer has several sitting for 2months. Unless your not going to drive the FE and just let is sit then resale . I don't plan on doing that , I plan on drive 12k miles a year average

 

[MudNGuts]

Hey, for the most part, my LC will be a toy. Should I pay to get Santa to come early?

 

[Ed1]

@tbounds02 I look at it this way:

The differences between LC with PP ($66,550) and FE ($74,950), along with the sticker cost or my own guess after viewing the Toyota website Build pages, are:

Roof rack - $1,400
Rock rails - $900
Front skid plate - $300?
Round lights - $0
Mud flaps - $250?
Tailgate light - $350?
Rear door guard - $75?

Total cost of added features - about $3,300
FE price difference - $8,400 (if both purchased at MSRP)

Not really sure why the FE is priced over $5,000 more than the LC with PP plus the cost of the added features. But I would think that all or most of the added price ($8,400) would be lost at the time of sale of a FE. If so, the FE would definitely drop more in value percentage-wise than the LC with PP.

And, of course, any markup paid over MSRP would also be lost (for both trims).

Someone please correct me if I left any feature differences out.

 

[newcruiser]

IMO, that difference will not hold up in the 2nd hand market. The First Edition is cool, BUT, it doesn't add anything that is both very desirable and very difficult to retrofit. The interior touches are nice, but most won't notice not having them. The headlights, maybe? Roof rack, rock sliders, mud flaps... all easy to add. They should have done the First Edition in special colors, IMO.

I agree on the special color(s), and it's already something toyota does for trd pro trim levels. The headlights are swapable, so even those can be switched on the LC trim if you like the round ones better.

 

[LC-120]

Hey, for the most part, my LC will be a toy. Should I pay to get Santa to come early?

I'm not gone lie. The answer is yes.

 

[Fort7365]

@tbounds02 I look at it this way:

The differences between LC with PP ($66,550) and FE ($74,950), along with the sticker cost or my own guess after viewing the Toyota website Build pages, are:

Roof rack - $1,400
Rock rails - $900
Front skid plate - $300?
Round lights - $0
Mud flaps - $250?
Tailgate light - $350?
Rear door guard - $75?

Total cost of added features - about $3,300
FE price difference - $8,400 (if both purchased at MSRP)

Not really sure why the FE is priced over $5,000 more than the LC with PP plus the cost of the added features. But I would think that all or most of the added price ($8,400) would be lost at the time of sale of a FE. If so, the FE would definitely drop more in value percentage-wise than the LC with PP.

And, of course, any markup paid over MSRP would also be lost (for both trims).

Someone please correct me if I left any feature differences out.

It's purely the exclusivity. This became clear the moment Toyota started pushing the fact that there would only be 5000. I've had no interest in the FE, even turned one down, but that's what it is. You're paying to get to say "I have one of the first". I wasn't interested, but there are plenty of people who find personal value in that and that's fine. I don't think the FE will hold the difference in re-sale. When it boils down to core features and the interior, nothing sets the FE apart. It's all tacked on stuff as you pointed out.

I'm very much expecting to see a trailhunter or TRD version to replace the FE in 2025/26. Toyota makes too much money on the exclusivity of the off-road specific trims.

 

[socallc]

you are correct . just not sure I want to eat the mark up upon resale in 2-4 years.
Does the forum think the FE will hold it value compared to the Land Cruiser Premium .
Lets say the FE is $82K and LC prem is $74 K today . will there still be $10k difference when selling or trading ?
I don't think it will will it bring more I am sure it will just because it will be FE , but will it make up the ADM charges?

I personally won’t pay more for a used FE compared to a used LC premium.

 

[qberg]

It's purely the exclusivity. This became clear the moment Toyota started pushing the fact that there would only be 5000. I've had no interest in the FE, even turned one down, but that's what it is. You're paying to get to say "I have one of the first". I wasn't interested, but there are plenty of people who find personal value in that and that's fine. I don't think the FE will hold the difference in re-sale. When it boils down to core features and the interior, nothing sets the FE apart. It's all tacked on stuff as you pointed out.

I'm very much expecting to see a trailhunter or TRD version to replace the FE in 2025/26. Toyota makes too much money on the exclusivity of the off-road specific trims.

5000 is quite a lot, TBH. Enough that they'd have a hard time pitching it as "exclusive" to anyone aware of how many they are building. Surely they can't be expecting more than 30k Land Cruisers per year... that's 1 in 6 being a first edition.

 

[Fort7365]

5000 is quite a lot, TBH. Enough that they'd have a hard time pitching it as "exclusive" to anyone aware of how many they are building. Surely they can't be expecting more than 30k Land Cruisers per year... that's 1 in 6 being a first edition.

If you go and watch the early promo youtube videos and stuff there is a lot of "for the first year only!" And "only the first 5000 made in the world!"

It was clearly their focus for marketing this edition. That's why the main difference is "First Edition" printed all over the vehicle wherever they could fit it.

 

[tbounds02]

It was my understanding that 5000 was just for North America , I never heard how many would be produced for the rest of the world

 

[Fort7365]

I'm pretty sure 5000 was for the world.