Toytec leveling kit 9 (or similar) vs. Westcott preload collars vs. NEITHER

[LCOceans]

I have been following all the information about various ways to increase the space in the wheel well in order to fit slightly larger tires on our land cruisers. Based on the thread sizes on the subject, it seems to be an issue that interests a lot of us. To me, the information I am reading is confusing with no clear cut answers on what is the right path to take to achieve a minimal lift - just enough to fit between a 34" and 35" tire, without looking like it is stuffed in the wheel well. But there are a lot of strong opinions in all directions saying one or the other method will destroy your shocks, ruin the ride, etc. I think much of this could be due to the different end goals of the capabilities of the truck and purposes. There is light off-roading or extreme rock crawling and stuff in between.

So I am putting this out there to hopefully get some clarification on facts with regard to a few specific modifications. My realistic off-roading adventures being that I am in Virginia would be light dirt trails, mud, much beach driving, and maybe light rocky terrain but nothing significant. 90% highway. I think my ideal is actually 33" to 35" at largest. Diameter over width. No interest in offset or moving the tire to outside - I think called negative offset. I want to keep tucked closer to center and inside the well. (and I know 33" are fine on stock, but I still want to lift slightly or level the front - get rid of rake).

So to the questions ;

I see one dealership puts out the video showing the Toytec leveling kit with 285/75/18 (below) and this looks perfect to me! However you can read all day about how this is the worst thing you can do to your LC. I have read it is terrible for actual use and 100% for show. Why? What happens? It appears to be a small piece of metal at top of shock that raises suspension by a small amount, but does not appear to actually change the application of the shocks or suspension. And these inexpensive kits are sold by other manufacturers too.



The Westcott Preload Collar - this raises the front by 2.5" and rear by .75", so I guess this is more of an all-around lift. Mention this on other off-roading forums and you will be blasted for even thinking about installing it. Supposed to be ok until you actually use off-road and then I hear becomes mushy or unstable and can actually damage things. I am newbie, but I think due to fact you actually reduce the amount of travel on the spring since the lift uses the coil itself to push the truck up a bit?? I think...

So the other choice is do neither of those and get new shocks, control arms, etc etc and many parts I don't understand and also do not want to pay for because I think beyond my need for modification, and I am not looking to extensively modify my new Land Cruiser which drives amazing right now. I think perhaps those that insist this is the only way to go are from those that are doing heavy off-roading but I am not sure exactly. Perhaps they are correct even for mild off-roading. Maybe it is best to leave alone unless this is the route you take and spend substantially more than the other 2 methods above.

I would love to hear from others on this topic to get your insights and experiences.

Thank you!

 

[b407driver]

Typically the type of lift kits you address first (spacer lifts) inhibit the wheel from drooping as much as stock configuration (due to the compressed spring). Droop is what keeps the tire on the ground, maintaining traction. Many aftermarket shocks come in an 'extended travel' version, which may help to mitigate this a bit, while still giving a bit of lift (the 5th gen 4Runner TRD Pro suspension is in this category). I know Westcott claims their puck lift doesn't affect suspension performance/ride, but anecdotal evidence might suggest otherwise.

The 'all in' solution (shocks, UCAs, and more) are often termed 'long travel' kits, and generally don't have the issues with droop that spacer lifts do, but may incur other issues. That being said, implementing a long-travel kit successfully is not that easy, and certainly not cheap. Tinkerer's Adventure on YT talks a lot about all this stuff, it's a great resource if you like hands-on tech discussions about how Toyota IFS suspension works.

Another camp would be running the largest tire you can to gain true ground clearance, assuming it does not contact the fender wells. This allows maintaining the stock suspension articulation, i.e. keeping tires on the ground as much as possible. I think most would agree that this is desirable.

As you noted, negative offset wheels (or spacers) can push the tire outside the fender, making even a stock 'height' tire make contact. This is often done for looks, and also results in the tires slinging debris all over the sides of the vehicle. I guess some people like that.

If you are concerned about looks, consider the various types of spacer/puck lifts. If you are concerned about keeping the good stock ride that came with your LC, I'd just get a larger-diameter tire and call it a day. These LCs will fit 285/70r18s with no rub (though it will not fit in the spare compartment), so 275/70r18 is probably the sweet spot (and does fit in the spare compartment). They work great out of the box, with a good tire.

Thusly, a solid tire is essential for whatever type of driving you do, and the OEM tires are only truly good at getting optimal gas mileage. It's always my first investment in a new offroad vehicle. Do your homework and don't be a KO2/KO3 lemming, those tires have proven themselves to be best for primarily offroad use, although the jury is probably still out on the newer version. Lots of good options out there.

 

[gxsandiego]

I went with the Westcott lift and 285/75 r17 tires. I didn't want to go with the offsets and stock tires for the reasons mentioned above. The ride actually feels better than the stock ride. I don't do that much off roading and really just like the looks and wanted more clearance for some rougher trails here in Southern Cal.

 

[DaChronisseur]

The first thing I'd say is that all a "normal"* lift does to IFS is change where in the travel the truck sits at static load. With new shocks and UCA, you might get an extra inch of extension (not a long travel suspension, that's an entirely different beast), but the hub is going to be in the same location relative the frame at full stuff. I point all this out to say that a lift alone will not allow for larger tires, if a given tire rubs at full lock/stuff on a stock vehicle it will rub with a lift.

I personally plan to put a very similar lift to what I have on my Tacoma on the LC, once it's available. That lift will involve ~2" in front, 1" in back, remote reservoir shocks, aftermarket UCAs, and heavier springs. My reasoning for this is that once the soft (and expensive) underbelly of this car is covered in 1/4" steel and beefy sliders go on, the stock springs are going to be overwhelmed, and if I'm going to replace the springs I may as well just go all in.

The remote reservoir shocks and UCAs allow for an additional inch of extension so I'll be losing zero droop in back and losing 1" in front while gaining additional dampened up travel, which helps reduce what the bump stops have to deal with.

I'll be sticking with the stock tire size as 33s are great and e rated AT tires in that size already weigh more than enough for me. I expect that, just like on my Tacoma, the new suspension will ride significantly better than stock in spite of having added a bit of height/travel and weight.

* True long travel suspension, which absolutely will change everything regarding the geometry of how the wheels travel, allows for whatever tire size you want. However, those require new UCAs, LCAs, CV axles, knuckles, fenders; and a ton of fabrication work to relocate the front and rear shock mounting points. I don't think I've ever seen an IFS SUV with LT suspension, it usually only gets put on wanna be trophy trucks, and a new LC owner would likely have to relocate the battery pack since that's where the top of the rear shocks are going to need to go.

 

[mkg]

For what its worth, I recently had the Westcott collars installed and got just over 1.5" up front, and 1" of lift in the rear.

I think the big part is going into things knowing what to expect... dont buy a simple spacer if you plan on doing any good amount of offroading, and dont go in thinking your car will peform better. It will raise your car up, and if you are lucky you wont notice any difference in the way it drives.

While I currently have the Westcott kit, I plan on doing one of the more entry level suspension kits once more are released. I dont do any hardcore offroading, mostly logging roads and that sort of deal. Something like the Icon EXP, or Eibach Pro level kits would be more than sufficient. Ive had a full Icon and Fox suspension setups in prior vehicles, and while they are great, at this point would be severely underused for my needs.

 

[Don]

The Westcott type lift makes both on and off road performance worse. The Westcott reps will likely tell you so if asked directly.

The many youtube videos on shocks and lifts for Tacoma and 4runner show what will be coming soon for the lC. I guess Westcott was smart for getting a product out first, but its a low quality way to do a lift on an expensive vehicle. On the other hand, there's little reason for most people to go to the high end of tunable reservoir shocks.

 

[mkg]

To be honest, I havent noticed a single difference in the on-road driving with the Westcot collars added. Where you would notice it is the decreased compression/extension of the front shock during offroad driving, but for a good chunk of the people buying them, thats not a top concern. (or possibly ever a concern) Not sure how they came to the 2.5" number, but as mentioned previously, I got just over 1.5", so it has a ~0.75" thicker bottom collar.

 

[gxsandiego]

I'm new to the off roading world as well and I have the Westcott Preload lift. I have not noticed any degradation to my ride on my GX. In fact it seems better. I went with the 285/75 R17 Toyo tires and a wider wheel. For me it serves the purpose for what I was looking for. I had a Tacoma TRD Offroad with a dealer installed lift for 5 years prior and it was great. I do the occasional off roading but nothing too radical and so far I'm happy with my choice

 

[Don]

 

[24LC]

I took my stock LC off-roading a couple weekends ago and did Red Cone with a bunch of friends with winches in case it became hairy, and it behaved well but there was a lot of slipping in the dirt (luckily, I was able to avoid some wet stuff) and it scraped a few times. I want bigger tires and smaller wheels (I have the 20s currently). I bought the Westcott lift a while back that I'm installing this weekend. Its so I can get the 315/70-17s I want now and do some off-roading while I wait for better full setups to release. In my experience, these lifts don't really affect the ride much either way. I've had them on trucks, small SUVs, full size, etc. Most recently I had one on my 2022 Tacoma for a year before installing kings and Camburg UCAs. The spacers never felt "better" or "worse" than stock, just sat a couple inches higher. For me, this is a steppingstone to what I really want; full suspension with remotes and UCAs (maybe even LCAs this time). Seeing as this is new and most kits haven't been released or used, I'm using this until the full kits get some use and I have a chance to take the LC offroad again but with the larger tires and see how it performs before jumping into a much more expensive setup. Unless you're riding some seriously technical stuff right away or want to do some desert running type off-roading you should be fine with a spacer type setup and upgrade later if you feel the need to.

 

[gxsandiego]

Watched the video on spacer lifts and one thing that isn't clear to me is that they mention the Tacoma they were testing had over 170000 kilometers or roughly 102000 miles. How does that factor into the analysis? I'm not sure what their point is. Were the shocks stressed by the lift or milage or both?

 

[LCOceans]

I took my stock LC off-roading a couple weekends ago and did Red Cone with a bunch of friends with winches in case it became hairy, and it behaved well but there was a lot of slipping in the dirt (luckily, I was able to avoid some wet stuff) and it scraped a few times. I want bigger tires and smaller wheels (I have the 20s currently). I bought the Westcott lift a while back that I'm installing this weekend. Its so I can get the 315/70-17s I want now and do some off-roading while I wait for better full setups to release. In my experience, these lifts don't really affect the ride much either way. I've had them on trucks, small SUVs, full size, etc. Most recently I had one on my 2022 Tacoma for a year before installing kings and Camburg UCAs. The spacers never felt "better" or "worse" than stock, just sat a couple inches higher. For me, this is a steppingstone to what I really want; full suspension with remotes and UCAs (maybe even LCAs this time). Seeing as this is new and most kits haven't been released or used, I'm using this until the full kits get some use and I have a chance to take the LC offroad again but with the larger tires and see how it performs before jumping into a much more expensive setup. Unless you're riding some seriously technical stuff right away or want to do some desert running type off-roading you should be fine with a spacer type setup and upgrade later if you feel the need to.

Thanks for the information and please let us know how the Land Cruiser feels after you have these installed and have taken it off road again. Looking forward to your thoughts!

 

[LCOceans]

If you are new at this like me, you might find this video I found tonight helpful. This guy is excellent and I feel like I am back in college taking a physics class. Now if I can just fully comprehend what he is talking about. My takeaway is no need for much lift. Small spacers might be the just right thing for the LC.

 

[REB27]

If you are new at this like me, you might find this video I found tonight helpful. This guy is excellent and I feel like I am back in college taking a physics class. Now if I can just fully comprehend what he is talking about. My takeaway is no need for much lift. Small spacers might be the just right thing for the LC.

The guy is a genius…even though I don’t understand half of what he analyzes! Leaving my FE stock….will just get better tires when the OEM,s wear out.

 

[b407driver]

If you are new at this like me, you might find this video I found tonight helpful. This guy is excellent and I feel like I am back in college taking a physics class. Now if I can just fully comprehend what he is talking about. My takeaway is no need for much lift. Small spacers might be the just right thing for the LC.

All Kai's stuff is great. If you want a bit more information on what you might be sacrificing by lifting a stock vehicle, check out how well the Land Cruiser 250 does on this ramp test:



The LC250 performs superbly, and it should make anyone interested in off-roading think twice before casually messing with the suspension (e.g. 'throwing on a spacer lift'). Dig around and you'll find similar videos for both the GX550 (eKDSS) and a 5th Gen KDSS 4Runner. The KDSS system really should have been retained on the TRD Pro (the prototype revealed in Chicago had it), but Toyota questionably chose to remove it by the time production started.

That spacer you refer to is essentially the lowest-hanging fruit for lifts, and absolutely can negatively impact your articulation, as well as the ride (this is subjective, however). The question is whether lifting the front a bit is worth losing said articulation. For 80% of the people out there it probably is to get the 'look' they want; the other 20% will either call it a day with bigger tires, and/or wait for real aftermarket suspension options.

[EDIT: Here's the Car & Driver (Dan Edmunds) results after testing the GX550]

 

[LCOceans]

All Kai's stuff is great. If you want a bit more information on what you might be sacrificing by lifting a stock vehicle, check out how well the Land Cruiser 250 does on this ramp test:



The LC250 performs superbly, and it should make anyone interested in off-roading think twice before casually messing with the suspension (e.g. 'throwing on a spacer lift'). Dig around and you'll find similar videos for both the GX550 (eKDSS) and a 5th Gen KDSS 4Runner. The KDSS system really should have been retained on the TRD Pro (the prototype revealed in Chicago had it), but Toyota questionably chose to remove it by the time production started.

That spacer you refer to is essentially the lowest-hanging fruit for lifts, and absolutely can negatively impact your articulation, as well as the ride (this is subjective, however). The question is whether lifting the front a bit is worth losing said articulation. For 80% of the people out there it probably is to get the 'look' they want; the other 20% will either call it a day with bigger tires, and/or wait for real aftermarket suspension options.

[EDIT: Here's the Car & Driver (Dan Edmunds) results after testing the GX550]


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Thanks. Yes I watched this several weeks ago and very interesting for sure.