Underbody Rust Removal
- Thread starter LC-120
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I alway try and prevent or slow corrosion; removing corrosion has many considerations. I've used this on the bed of my Toyota truck and I'm considering treatments for the LC250.
https://www.chemcenters.com/images/Dinitrol_AV30.pdf
https://www.chemcenters.com/images/Dinitrol_AV30.pdf
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I did not do anything so far. It is not so bad but I consider removing rust and protecting the underbody.
Right now I am checking both products or process. Three options so far:
-removing chassis and components, sanding and painting all of them separately (best quality, huge cost and time)
-removing just bumpers and wheels, sanding, protecting, painting, wax.
-DIY cleaning then removing rust with rotary brush and other...... then spraying protection and paint
Right now I am checking both products or process. Three options so far:
-removing chassis and components, sanding and painting all of them separately (best quality, huge cost and time)
-removing just bumpers and wheels, sanding, protecting, painting, wax.
-DIY cleaning then removing rust with rotary brush and other...... then spraying protection and paint
This is a good source for general corrosion control. This is an aviation standard but is also suitable for cars/trucks.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_43.13-1B_w-chg1.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_43.13-1B_w-chg1.pdf
I spent 20 years on ships made of steel. In saltwater and high temperature heat, once it gets a foothold you're in trouble. There are chemical conversions you can do but they all start with mechanically removing as much rust as you can. Even things like POR 15 won't totally stop it. Best bet is to prevent it as much as possible to begin with.
Heat is a catalyst for rust. I have a heated garage but my Tacoma has spent its 10 years of life sitting in the driveway during the winter. Because that 5 months of the year that the roads are salted here it is usually below freezing. Heck much of it below zero °F for that matter. Not a lot of rust going on at those temps. One reason the Taco frames rot so bad around the Cat is the heat that they produce. Even in the cold.
When new and first couple of years every fall I sprayed the frame with Corrosion Free Rust Cure Formula 3000. It is what the Canadian military decided on after testing a lot of CRC products. After a couple of years I went to Fluid Film because it was easier and cheaper to get. There are a lot of people in the North that have FF parties this time of year to spray their frames.
Must have worked for me, I got the recall notice on the Tacoma for the Toyota CRC treatment this summer. When I picked it up the Tech came out and asked what I did to the frame, he said it was in the best condition he had seen for the age. He said they did spray it though.
Picking up a 2019 GX460 tomorrow. Carfax showed it had been serviced in Mn. during the summer and Texas in the Winter so it hasn't seen salt or at least much of it. One of the main reasons I considered getting it plus likely an older snowbird couple owned it on the 4 year lease. I'm getting too old to climb around under a vehicle spraying the frame so next week will be taking it to a shop near me that does oil undercoating. They use NHOU Oil Undercoating and I will have them do it every Fall. CRC 3000 (a.k.a. Canadian Snake Oil LOL), Fluid Film, NH OU Oil, doesn't matter so much. Just Get R Done in the Fall. From the first year and every year going forward. Stay away from hard or rubber under coatings. Far, far away.
Heat is a catalyst for rust. I have a heated garage but my Tacoma has spent its 10 years of life sitting in the driveway during the winter. Because that 5 months of the year that the roads are salted here it is usually below freezing. Heck much of it below zero °F for that matter. Not a lot of rust going on at those temps. One reason the Taco frames rot so bad around the Cat is the heat that they produce. Even in the cold.
When new and first couple of years every fall I sprayed the frame with Corrosion Free Rust Cure Formula 3000. It is what the Canadian military decided on after testing a lot of CRC products. After a couple of years I went to Fluid Film because it was easier and cheaper to get. There are a lot of people in the North that have FF parties this time of year to spray their frames.
Must have worked for me, I got the recall notice on the Tacoma for the Toyota CRC treatment this summer. When I picked it up the Tech came out and asked what I did to the frame, he said it was in the best condition he had seen for the age. He said they did spray it though.
Picking up a 2019 GX460 tomorrow. Carfax showed it had been serviced in Mn. during the summer and Texas in the Winter so it hasn't seen salt or at least much of it. One of the main reasons I considered getting it plus likely an older snowbird couple owned it on the 4 year lease. I'm getting too old to climb around under a vehicle spraying the frame so next week will be taking it to a shop near me that does oil undercoating. They use NHOU Oil Undercoating and I will have them do it every Fall. CRC 3000 (a.k.a. Canadian Snake Oil LOL), Fluid Film, NH OU Oil, doesn't matter so much. Just Get R Done in the Fall. From the first year and every year going forward. Stay away from hard or rubber under coatings. Far, far away.
I'll consider Corrosion Free Rust Cure Formula 3000, thanks. I forgot to mention Dinitrol AV30 is highly toxic, so careful adherence to the MSDS would be appropriate.
Fluid Film is safe for pretty much any application. My Weber Genesis grill at only 6 years rotted out at many points. Weber was good at replacing the rusted parts, enough that I got replacement parts for free from them.
But I am spraying Fluid Film on all surfaces before I reassemble it especially the inside of the rails. It is safe to use even with heat and cooking food.
In Canada Canadian Tire uses CFRC 3000 for rust proofing or at least to. Canadian Tire is also called Crappy Tire for a reason. There is something to be said for pressure spaying into frame channels with specialized tools. But the application is only as good as the person doing it....
As usual if you want something done right do it yourself IMO.
If it was mine I'd hit it with a wire brush and scrub off all loose rust first. Then hit it with Osho and let it sit for a week and rinse before painting. Then after painting I'd hit it with Fluid Film. If you put FF on it the paint will not stick very well if at all. Osho is cheap and honestly I think it is as good as the expensive stuff for rust conversion.
Good advice here - I'd also encourage the Fluid Film idea though I personally use Woolwax which is the same kind of Lanolin-based coating, just a thicker product that will hang a bit better than FF (good luck finding cans of Woolwax though - may have to go w/ compressed air set-up as they're having difficulty with their vendor for aerosols). I'm in MN so we're deep in the rust belt and I've tried POR-15 and Chassis Saver with mediocre results - that's mostly due to air/moisture will almost always find a way through the coating due to missed spots, scratches, or areas where the parent metal/chassis wasn't cleaned enough.
The thing w/ Fluid Film/Woolwax is that you just need to clean and re-apply at least annually. Well, I suppose you don't "need" to clean but you're probably going to have the best results spraying on a clean surface and you can get a good look at what's going on with the chassis on an annual basis. By "cleaning", you could pressure wash or just run a sprinkler under your truck in a few areas for about 10-15 mins each. With that said, you'll just have to get used to not using car washes during the winter, so you don't blast all the film off of your truck. You just have to trust the film.
If you want to find a provider that does this, there may be shops that specifically mention Fluid Film or Woolwax treatment but there's also Krown which is more of a Canadian company, but I recall some have been popping up in the US.
I'll note that if you already have some kind of soft rubberized undercoating (3M aerosol or factory), I think the Lanolin stuff may soften/deteriorate that material. Not really a big deal as I'll spray over any of this factory undercoating that has been scratched anyway as I don't want the bare metal exposed.
Oh, and I suggest not doing the hard rubberized undercoating as that stuff can crack/split or be punctured and end up acting like a pocket for moisture/salt to get underneath. Also rubberized undercoating is awful to deal with when trying to disassemble components that have been sprayed with this stuff. For funsies, here's a vid f/ Paul w/ South Main Auto (he's a mechanic in New York state so salt/corrosion in a recurring theme in his repair work).
The thing w/ Fluid Film/Woolwax is that you just need to clean and re-apply at least annually. Well, I suppose you don't "need" to clean but you're probably going to have the best results spraying on a clean surface and you can get a good look at what's going on with the chassis on an annual basis. By "cleaning", you could pressure wash or just run a sprinkler under your truck in a few areas for about 10-15 mins each. With that said, you'll just have to get used to not using car washes during the winter, so you don't blast all the film off of your truck. You just have to trust the film.
If you want to find a provider that does this, there may be shops that specifically mention Fluid Film or Woolwax treatment but there's also Krown which is more of a Canadian company, but I recall some have been popping up in the US. I'll note that if you already have some kind of soft rubberized undercoating (3M aerosol or factory), I think the Lanolin stuff may soften/deteriorate that material. Not really a big deal as I'll spray over any of this factory undercoating that has been scratched anyway as I don't want the bare metal exposed.
Oh, and I suggest not doing the hard rubberized undercoating as that stuff can crack/split or be punctured and end up acting like a pocket for moisture/salt to get underneath. Also rubberized undercoating is awful to deal with when trying to disassemble components that have been sprayed with this stuff. For funsies, here's a vid f/ Paul w/ South Main Auto (he's a mechanic in New York state so salt/corrosion in a recurring theme in his repair work).
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Great discussion. I remember Ziebart undercoating from growing up in north east Ohio. We need to find another chloride chemistry to use on the roads in the mid west and north eastern USA. I have to report keeping my Jeep Wrangler TJ free of major corrosion for 23 years required no effort in western Washington.
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Good advice here - I'd also encourage the Fluid Film idea though I personally use Woolwax which is the same kind of Lanolin-based coating, just a thicker product that will hang a bit better than FF (good luck finding cans of Woolwax though - may have to go w/ compressed air set-up as they're having difficulty with their vendor for aerosols). I'm in MN so we're deep in the rust belt and I've tried POR-15 and Chassis Saver with mediocre results - that's mostly due to air/moisture will almost always find a way through the coating due to missed spots, scratches, or areas where the parent metal/chassis wasn't cleaned enough.
The thing w/ Fluid Film/Woolwax is that you just need to clean and re-apply at least annually. Well, I suppose you don't "need" to clean but you're probably going to have the best results spraying on a clean surface and you can get a good look at what's going on with the chassis on an annual basis. By "cleaning", you could pressure wash or just run a sprinkler under your truck in a few areas for about 10-15 mins each. With that said, you'll just have to get used to not using car washes during the winter, so you don't blast all the film off of your truck. You just have to trust the film.
I'll note that if you already have some kind of soft rubberized undercoating (3M aerosol or factory), I think the Lanolin stuff may soften/deteriorate that material. Not really a big deal as I'll spray over any of this factory undercoating that has been scratched anyway as I don't want the bare metal exposed.
Oh, and I suggest not doing the hard rubberized undercoating as that stuff can crack/split or be punctured and end up acting like a pocket for moisture/salt to get underneath. Also rubberized undercoating is awful to deal with when trying to disassemble components that have been sprayed with this stuff. For funsies, here's a vid f/ Paul w/ South Main Auto (he's a mechanic in New York state so salt/corrosion in a recurring theme in his repair work).
^^^ This, all of this. I've been in Mn. for 24 years now so not surprised
Wax based coating would be my preference but they should be done professionally to be done right from what I have read. My new to me GX460 that is 4 years old got NHOU oil last night. If the nearest sprayer for wax wasn't 4 hours away in Wi. I would have had it done with NHOU Boss Wax. New LC if I end up with it will get Boss Wax before winter. According to the Carfax service history my LC 150 spent winters in Texas and summers in Wayzata so it hadn't seen salt, one reason I bought it last week.
And it shows, the guy spraying last night said the underside was in better shape than a brand new Chevy full size pickup that had come in a couple of weeks ago with 80 miles on it. Took him an hour and a half to spray it on the lift and he inserted the wand into places I never thought of. Pretty proud of crawling under the Taco for the last 10 years hitting it with cans of FF with a straw on the end of it but after watching him I will never do it myself again. Getting old so my muscles and bones hurting afterwards may have something to do with it too LOL.
Will be having him do it in the Fall every year going forward. Timing was right in purchasing it he will stop spraying once the snow slush starts, was lucky with it being warmer than normal this year. If it was a bit warmer I'd take it for a drive on some dirt roads and get a nice coat of dust on the oil. Will be taking it out for a spin later today to try and kick up some dust anyhow, likely an exercise in futility but this thing is a joy to drive and as good of an excuse as any to sit in the heated leather seat.
After oil treatment no undercarriage car washes until Spring. For the most part stay out of the car wash in the winter anyhow. Leaving frozen snow on the frame helps a lot more than rinsing the steel in water that has been reclaimed in the wash to remove oils. But still holds salt water and you are basically rinsing it in a salt brine. I don't see any good coming from that!
DuPont makes the NHOU Oil. They basically took Fluid Film and made it thicker, removed the smell, and modified the chemical composition some. It is a lot more common on the East Coast and is spreading West. The guy I took it to moved here from Pa. 3.5 years ago.
I still haven't grown up but was raised in the Twin Tiers of NY and Pa.
I remember Ziebart well I'm surprised they are still in business. In 75 was driving my 67 Mustang with my sister in the passenger seat and she let out a yell. I looked over and the floor pan had dropped out and we were looking down at the road go by under us. It had been Ziebarted.Spent a few years in Bremerton at the yards across the Sound from you, it was the best duty station I ever had. Absolutely loved it and if I wasn't on board the ship I was in the Olympics. Or sometimes the Cascades. It is where I bought my FJ55.
Puget Sound is the most temperate climate for that far North of any place in the World. It doesn't get the same amount of snow but it sure gets it share of ice especially black ice. You mean they actually salt the roads there now days?! OK well maybe as old man winter approaches I am a little jealous of you... I use magnesium chloride in my driveway instead of calcium chloride. It has many advantages over calcium but it is hell on metal so I use it sparingly, no free lunch. Totally agree with you, would think by now that they would have a better technology. Around here they use more sand and less chloride last few years to save money. And I am one of the first to complain about slip sliding away as I try to drive.
Growing up in Daytona Beach, the local Ziebart guy was the first stop for anyone purchasing a new vehicle down there. Then decades later I remember reading something about a huge lawsuit against corporate Ziebart. I don’t know anything about the plaintiff’s complaint, or the outcome of the litigation.
Does anyone else know?
Is this Ziebart still a viable option?
