MPG

[Colorado]

"It ain't the arrows, it's the Indian."

All of our LCs are, for mpg purposes, virtually identical. Lots of owners, including me, have consistently averaged 23+ mpg since purchasing their LC. You can too, I bet.

I wonder what kind of mileage we'd get if we swapped cars. My bet would be that the high mileage driver would get the same high mileage and the low milage driver would get the same low mileage.

It reminds me of an old saying they have in motorcycle racing. "Four guys set out to race, one each on a Honda, a Kawasaki, a Yamaha and a Suzuki. Who will win? Answer: The fast guy."

I don't want to start a flame war. But getting the most mpgs out of a hybrid does require a modification to your driving habits. It may have something to do with break-in period, too, but I think there are plenty of people here that have gotten 23+ mpgs from day one, simply because they've driven hybrids before or they know how to drive for better mileage.

 

[neilwill]

It’s obvious, there’s nothing wrong with the vehicles, neither was Toyota lying if you don’t get the mpg estimates. Just a perusal of the multiple threads on this forum about mpg, you will see that there is a wide variety mpg that people are getting. Many people are getting below advertised mpg and many are getting advertised mpg and above. There a multitude of factors that effect mpg!!!!! I have been getting 21+ mpg from day one, averaging 65-80mph and recently that seems to have gone up by a couple mpg. Maybe my roads and routes are conducive to better mpg.

 

[LCSpecial]

Help me understand, do any of the weights vary between the 3 trims? If so, would this be a factor why some of us are getting below 17mpg in town? I've been very light on the gas pedal (like driving miss daisy light) and watching the MAX gauge like a good soldier.
My LC is 6800 lbs Gross Vehicle Weight. It states on google 2024's Curb Weight 5038--- assuming the huge 1700+ lb difference of extra payload comes from the batteries

 

[ultane]

My feelings are: (1) Toyota is claiming those 23/25mpg stats by marketing them on its website for this vehicle and (2) I (and I suspect many of us) are expecting strong mpg by spending a very high purchase price on this hybrid. I for one would not have spent this money or purchased this hybrid for 14mpg performance in local driving.

I get what you are saying.. but… the 2024 LC is a ‘parallel’ hybrid, which adds torque and HP to the LC performance.

It is not a ‘series’ hybrid (Prius)

I suggest you check out The Car Care Nut’s video, posted in several places on this forum, and on YouTube, on how to drive a hybrid for maximum fuel efficiency.

 

[ultane]

However if this 4 cylinder 350 HP HYBRID settles at the same MPG as a 600 HP, very heavy, very square vehicle (latest MB G63 AMG) then something is not right.

~326 HP…

It seems that it is more important to you, to tell us (brag) all about your wealth, and of what is parked in your garage, than learn how to drive the hybrid that you own, to get the fuel economy that you claim to desire, from your LC.

If you can own an AMG, and are buying another, and a rubicon, what difference does it make what the ‘fuel economy’, or lack there of, is for your LC?

 

[Pierac]

"It ain't the arrows, it's the Indian."

All of our LCs are, for mpg purposes, virtually identical. Lots of owners, including me, have consistently averaged 23+ mpg since purchasing their LC. You can too, I bet.

I wonder what kind of mileage we'd get if we swapped cars. My bet would be that the high mileage driver would get the same high mileage and the low milage driver would get the same low mileage.

It reminds me of an old saying they have in motorcycle racing. "Four guys set out to race, one each on a Honda, a Kawasaki, a Yamaha and a Suzuki. Who will win? Answer: The fast guy."

I don't want to start a flame war. But getting the most mpgs out of a hybrid does require a modification to your driving habits. It may have something to do with break-in period, too, but I think there are plenty of people here that have gotten 23+ mpgs from day one, simply because they've driven hybrids before or they know how to drive for better mileage.

I personally think its all about how many Stops you have to take in any given trip. I get about 15 miles per gallon driving 5 miles in Eco mode. There are many Stop signs and red lights. I have tried on several trips to try and get better gas milage. Barely applying the gas at each stop and very slowly getting to the speed limit... No change in Mileage ! However when i drive about 20min to church with fewer stops and Hwy miles I get around 20 MPG.... Driving Hwy I get 23 to 29 MPG depending if I'm going Up North (Up Hill Mostly)or driving down South (Down Hill Mostly). The LC does not Like Stops and Go's in terms of MPG

 

[TrailWhale]

You just need to learn how to drive it, as idiotic as that may sound to you.

(Edited to tone it down a bit Sorry for cherry-picking this comment, upon re-reading the thread it was contextually relevant and correct! my bad!)

I see this kind of comment a lot in these MPG threads and it feels a little dismissive and could use some nuance.

There is enough data to suggest that there are very realistic driving use cases where the gas mileage on this thing dramatically underperforms expectations.

Some but not all of these variables that are causing reduced fuel economy are not solved by “watch care care nut on how to drive a hybrid” (which everyone should watch!) or even worse “learn how to drive it”.

It’s such a nuanced multivariable topic that we have managed to mask behind a single number. We all have very different driving habits in very different conditions.

It would be great in these generic cases of “I get X so if you drive like me, you will can X too!” if we spent a minute to describe diving habits, conditions, route durations and lengths, speeds, vehicle accessories, temperature, elevation, etc etc.

Ok ok. I’m done ranting!

TLDR empathy and nuance would help out a lot in these MPG discussions in general.

 

[HarvLC]

For those struggling with fuel economy & expectations, you might spend some time digging into the test procedure required by the EPA. As shown on the below image (from Detailed Test Information), the max acceleration rate is extraordinarily modest for the "city test". In fact, you can look at the target speed by second for that 31-minute test and see how slowly the vehicle is accelerated and braked (see https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2015-10/ftpcol.txt). Such driving will minimize the use of the turbo and maximize the regenerative braking. How many of us are driving around without the AC on and taking 9 seconds to accelerate to 30mph?!

And though the EPA now adjusts the city (and highway) measure by results from the supplemental tests for high speed, A/C use, and cold outdoor temps, the high speed test is still somewhat favorable with regard to few stops and minimal use of the higher acceleration rate (see https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2015-10/us06col.txt which is linked from Dynamometer Drive Schedules | US EPA).

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that we should each strive to drive in a manner consistent with the city test procedure. But by understanding the procedure, we might better recognize understand the factors that lead to our results meeting or falling short of the EPA estimates.

 

[TrailWhale]

why some of us are getting below 17mpg in town?

The hybrid system is extremely conservative for the first 10-15 minutes of operation. So if you do a lot of 5-15 minute drives in city/residential conditions (lots of stops and gos) then 17mpg feels normal in my experience so far. Sometimes if i have have two longer drives back to back (e.g. 15min one way to pick up a kid, 15 min back) i will creep up in my MPG the whole time, toward 20.

20+ only happens for me when i get onto suburban style ~45mph roadways or onto highways/country roads.

 

[OKLA Cruiser]

Nothing to it….just depends on how you drive and where you drive along with being stock etc…
At 1500 miles I’m still at 24.1 MPG
Haven’t been lower than 23.4. Stock 1958 with the roof rack

Its the wheel and tires. The stock 1958s have much lighter wheels and tires due to size and tread for less rolling resistance when taking off and on highway. Then the vehicle is lighter also, no skid plates, rock rails, sway bar disconnect, and usualy no roof rack. etc.etc. It all adds up.

 

[qberg]

I personally think its all about how many Stops you have to take in any given trip. I get about 15 miles per gallon driving 5 miles in Eco mode. There are many Stop signs and red lights. I have tried on several trips to try and get better gas milage. Barely applying the gas at each stop and very slowly getting to the speed limit... No change in Mileage ! However when i drive about 20min to church with fewer stops and Hwy miles I get around 20 MPG.... Driving Hwy I get 23 to 29 MPG depending if I'm going Up North (Up Hill Mostly)or driving down South (Down Hill Mostly). The LC does not Like Stops and Go's in terms of MPG

Just the nature of the beast. Something that weighs 5200lbs is going to not be very efficient when regularly coming to a stop. It is common for roads around here to be posted at 45mph but have stoplights every mile or so. It takes considerable energy to get a vehicle up to 45mph just to waste most of it again when stopping at the next light. Hybrid does help with this, but if the driver brakes late, the friction brakes take the energy rather than the electric motor. TBH, this is why I love roundabouts rather than lights. There's at least a decent chance of rolling through an intersection versus having a stoplight bring 8 cars to a stop to let 1 crossing car out.

 

[mayonayze]

This is overly dismissive and borderline rude.

Incorrect

 

[ultane]

This is overly dismissive and borderline rude.

There is enough data to suggest that there are very realistic driving use cases where the gas mileage on this thing dramatically underperforms expectations.

Many of these variables that are causing reduced fuel economy are not solved by “watch care care nut on how to drive a hybrid” or even worse “learn how to drive it”.

Sometimes, you must just stand back and look at the situation, read not only what is written, but between the lines as well.

If someone has the disposable wealth to drive a G wagon (which he bragged was soon to be replaced by a brand new one), and 500 HP Rubicon (almost bragging about it in his posts), I do not think that person will lose sleep over, and have to rearrange their budget to drive a LC getting 15 mpg. Some people just like to complain, to seek pitty from others.

Old habits die hard. The thrill of driving high powered vehicles (that make a wonderful rumble and pin you back to the seat, when asked to), that the OP mentioned, more than once, maybe with a HEAVY right foot, to duplicate the sensations that his other vehicles provide him, and then expecting to get good fuel economy driving a parallel hybrid, is unrealistic.

Which makes me wonder, was he complaining about his parallel hybrid, not performing as he expected it to, or bragging about his other high performance rigs (the ‘look at me, look at ME’ syndrome) mentioned more than once.

The CCN video was suggested in an attempt to educate, cause him to have a paradigm shift, not be dismissive or rude.

Sometimes, people are rude, sometimes people are dismissive. I was not being either in that post. But I will call a spade, a spade, if needed.

Flame away.

 

[TrailWhale]

Sometimes, you must just stand back and look at the situation, read not only what is written, but between the lines as well.

If someone has the disposable wealth to drive a G wagon (which he bragged was soon to be replaced by a brand new one), and 500 HP Rubicon (almost bragging about it in his posts), I do not think that person will lose sleep over, and have to rearrange their budget to drive a LC getting 15 mpg. Some people just like to complain, to seek pitty from others.

Old habits die hard. The thrill of driving high powered vehicles (that make a wonderful rumble and pin you back to the seat, when asked to), that the OP mentioned, more than once, maybe with a HEAVY right foot, to duplicate the sensations that his other vehicles provide him, and then expecting to get good fuel economy driving a parallel hybrid, is unrealistic.

Which makes me wonder, was he complaining about his parallel hybrid, not performing as he expected it to, or bragging about his other high performance rigs (the look at me, look at ME syndrome) mentioned more than once.

The CCN video was suggested in an attempt to educate, cause him to have a paradigm shift, not be dismissive or rude.

Sometimes, people are rude, sometimes people are dismissive. I was not being either in that post. But I will call a spade, a spade, if needed.

Flame away.

I don't know this guy's story, i don't know most folks story. Almost nobody gives the actual specifics in these fuel economy discussions. So, I absolutely apologize if I missed specific context specific to the situation. I'm not trying to flame. Sorry! The internet is hard sometimes, and I cherry-picked a particular comment that i see too often without fully grasping the entire context.

I still feel like i see a LOT of MPG discussions swept under the "You are driving wrong. Drive better (like me!)" that lacks empathy and any nuance. We can do better!

Anyhoo, sorry again, I'll serve myself an internet timeout and come back refreshed and my usual friendly self!

 

[Tripod1404]

I get what you are saying.. but… the 2024 LC is a ‘parallel’ hybrid, which adds torque and HP to the LC performance.

It is not a ‘series’ hybrid (Prius)

I suggest you check out The Car Care Nut’s video, posted in several places on this forum, and on YouTube, on how to drive a hybrid for maximum fuel efficiency.

Both configurations can be used for efficiency. But the reason why it doesn’t work very well on LC is that it has a small electric motor. So for the vast majority of applications, the electric motor needs to work together with the engine, cutting back some of the efficiency gain.

As a comparison, LC has a 48hp electric motor. Prius has a 80hp electric motor and rav4/Venza hybrid has 129hp electric motor. Both vehicles are significantly lighter than the LC. To have a similar application, they would probably need to put in a ~160hp electric motor, would probably need a different type of transmission compared to what we have now.

 

[ultane]

I don't know this guy's story, i don't know most folks story. Almost nobody gives the actual specifics in these fuel economy discussions. So, I absolutely apologize if I missed specific context specific to the situation. I'm not trying to flame. Sorry! The internet is hard sometimes, and I cherry-picked a particular comment that i see too often without fully grasping the entire context.

I still feel like i see a LOT of MPG discussions swept under the "You are driving wrong. Drive better (like me!)" that lacks empathy and any nuance. We can do better!

Anyhoo, sorry again, I'll serve myself an internet timeout and come back refreshed and my usual friendly self!

If you or anyone else put your foot in it, kicking up the turbo boost, you and anyone else can forget about getting good fuel economy. The turbo is there for HP, on the occasion when you need it.. passing, pulling a load, etc. Which is why I suggested the CCN video.

I can be getting 20 MPG in my 2015 Transit van (3.5L twin turbo), kick it, and watch my fuel economy number and my fuel gage instantly drop like a rock. DAMHIKT.

So, on these parallel hybrid vehicles it is ALL about how you drive them. Period.

Some people just like complaining, especially Karens.

 

[TrailWhale]

Incorrect

You are right, I cherry picked your comment without context and I 100% apologize. After re-reading the thread, your comment was appropriate. I'll take the L here and try to have my coffee before ranting at random again.

 

[TrailWhale]

If you or anyone else put your foot in it, kicking up the turbo boost, you and anyone else can forget about getting good fuel economy. The turbo is there for HP, on the occasion when you need it.. passing, pulling a load, etc. Which is why I suggested the CCN video.

I can be getting 20 MPG in my 2015 Transit van (3.5L twin turbo), kick it, and watch my fuel economy number and my fuel gage instantly drop like a rock. DAMHIKT.

So, on these parallel hybrid vehicles it is ALL about how you drive them. Period.

Some people just like complaining, especially Karens.

I still think there is a good reason to be disappointed with this hybrid system for short drives. During the first 10 minutes of city/residential driving, that turbo spools up if you even think about trying to accelerate or even barely maintain current speed. It takes too long for the Cruiser to remember it is a hybrid. Toyota could have done better here.

But yeah, I completely agree ... how you drive it is a massive lever for your fuel economy across all types of driving.

Anyhoo, now that the temperatures have cooled down a bit my real MPG hack is to just ride my bike

 

[mayonayze]

You are right, I cherry picked your comment without context and I 100% apologize. After re-reading the thread, your comment was appropriate. I'll take the L here and try to have my coffee before ranting at random again.

No love lost, man. We’re all trying to help each other out

 

[HarvLC]

You are right, I cherry picked your comment without context and I 100% apologize. After re-reading the thread, your comment was appropriate. I'll take the L here and try to have my coffee before ranting at random again.

Though we can be guilty for being overly simplistic & unhelpful by saying, “learn to drive more efficiently”, we can be equally guilty by blaming Toyota or assuming a defective unit when we fail to achieve an EPA figure that we haven’t bothered to fully understand. It was that latter point that got under my skin and caused me to post a terse comment this morning.