Missing KDSS does it make a big difference

[Gkkuchipudi]

Almost pulled trigger to get a certified preowned GX460 but looked at this new LC250 desperately wanted to get hands on First Edition but thinking about the missing KDSS.
Any insights on how the ride quality differs.

 

[Nuke]

You might have to consider the GX550 Overtrail. Besides, getting a First Edition could be difficult, and particularly at MSRP.

 

[LC-120]

 

[Nuke]

You might have to consider the GX550 Overtrail. Besides, getting a First Edition could be difficult, and particularly at MSRP.

AND, the GX 550 Overtrail has true KDSS, i.e. front and rear, wherein the Land Cruiser only has it on the front, and a different/cheaper system than on the GX.

 

[Wanderlost]

My Jeep Wrangler TJ has exemplary articulation, however I rarely use the limits even though it’s only a $14,000 USD vehicle in 2000 dollars. My sense is extreme articulation will rarely be used on a $80k USD vehicle.

 

[Nuke]

My Jeep Wrangler TJ has exemplary articulation, however I rarely use the limits even though it’s only a $14,000 USD vehicle in 2000 dollars. My sense is extreme articulation will rarely be used on a $80k USD vehicle.

Correct there Wanderlost! It certainly would not be for rock-climbing at Moab! Have watched videos of folks there with their pricy machines, and trashing them.

 

[LC-120]

Here we have three trims for the present discounted LC 150. The second trim gets the KDSS and the top trim gets also AVS (Adaptive Variable Suspension) together with:
Panoramic View Monitor (PVM): parking assistance with panoramic view (4 cameras)
Multi Terrain Monitor - visibility under the car for off-road assistance
Off-road system: Crawl Control
Off-road system: Multi Terrain Select (MTS) with mode selection: Rock / Rock & Dirt / Mogul / Loose rock / Mud & Sand
Torsen LSD lockable rear differential - automatic activation

 

[Wanderlost]

I’ve never owned a vehicle with active suspension, and maybe I’m trying to talk myself out of a GX550; I just can’t picture Toyota when I think of manufacturers with excellent chassis / suspension integration. This seems to be the ethos of German manufacturers like BMW and Porsche, with the opposite end of the spectrum being Toyota and Subaru. I’ve owned Ducati and KTM motorcycles with excellent chassis / suspension integration, but I just can’t imagine a truck with exemplary on-road handling performance. Maybe I’m missing something with the GX550.

 

[Nuke]

Agreed, active suspension on what is essentially a truck, i.e. cab/chassis? I'm sure it will help a tad, but certainly no BMW. Owned a Bimmer once, and it was truly amazing performance and suspension wise. However, NOT a vehicle to own out of warranty! Now, the KDSS, especially the GX550 variant, should be a great aid in extreme off-road scenarios. So Wanderlost, I am presuming you/we are considering the GX550 Overtrail? I have this sinking feeling the MSRP will be mind-numbing.

 

[IceColdNorth]

Almost pulled trigger to get a certified preowned GX460 but looked at this new LC250 desperately wanted to get hands on First Edition but thinking about the missing KDSS.
Any insights on how the ride

The Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS) on the GX550, when in "Comfort" mode, dramatically improves the ride on streets/highways. So, unless the new LC being introduced in the US has AVS, that's an advantage for the forthcoming GX550 Luxury+ and Overtrail+ trim levels.
I use my '22 GX460 as a daily driver and can't tell how much the KDSS adds to performance in that respect.
I'm wondering whether an aftermarket suspension improvement on the LC could replicate the AVS benefits from the GX at a reduced price point. Interested to hear any insights on this ...

 

[Wanderlost]

Agreed, active suspension on what is essentially a truck, i.e. cab/chassis? I'm sure it will help a tad, but certainly no BMW. Owned a Bimmer once, and it was truly amazing performance and suspension wise. However, NOT a vehicle to own out of warranty! Now, the KDSS, especially the GX550 variant, should be a great aid in extreme off-road scenarios. So Wanderlost, I am presuming you/we are considering the GX550 Overtrail? I have this sinking feeling the MSRP will be mind-numbing.

The GX550 will be a fine vehicle; my preference would be the Overtrail trim. The LC 250 meets my requirements at a much better life cycle value compared to the GX550; everything will be more expensive with the GX550.

 

[Nuke]

The GX550 will be a fine vehicle; my preference would be the Overtrail trim. The LC 250 meets my requirements at a much better life cycle value compared to the GX550; everything will be more expensive with the GX550.

Good point, the life cycle value! In my opinion the prestige of the "Land Cruiser" badge will preserve the long-term value. So Toyota, cough up some specifics re options and pricing! Another thought, the, I believe 17 MPG estimated fuel economy (on premium fuel) for the GX is very discouraging. Similar to what happened with the Tundra.

 

[Wanderlost]

It appears yes; the LC 250 can't have this design flaw if it doesn't have KDSS.

 

[Nuke]

Thanks for the heads up! Is the KDSS on the new GX the same as on the above vehicle? Could be mistaken, but it seems it may be of a different design? If not, hope it is resolved in the GX 550. The LC 250 has front only KDSS, correct?

 

[Wanderlost]

Good question; I need to research so I can understand the issue better. It seems like a problem with the automated actuation system on the GX whereas the LC 250 is hard switchable.

 

[Nuke]

I am not at all familiar with the KDSS system on the GX 460, but as you, will do some research. Our nearest Lexus dealer is 4+ hours distant, so not like I can stop by and speak with a technician, if that is even possible nowadays. The service writers typically know zilch...

 

[Wanderlost]

Here is a professional Lexus technician going through the service bulletin. There is no way I can accept asymmetric coil springs as a technical solution for my vehicle. Low production levels for KDSS equipped models may have affected Toyota's approach to a solution. I'll have to dig further to see if Land Cruiser trims can be affected.

 

[Nuke]

Thanks Wanderlost, you're the MAN!! VERY strange the spring on the high side was replaced. Did I see that correctly? However, encouragingly, the replacement spring was a new part number, so there was a definite fault determined and remedied, and hopefully this will not be an issue with new production vehicles.

 

[Wanderlost]

Toyota sourced the KDSS system from Kinetic Pty Ltd, a small R&D company based in Dunsborough, Western Australia according to Wikipedia. Technicians in the two videos I posted have clearly not benefited from a full explanation of the problem from Toyota’s design engineers. For me, my evaluation of KDSS equipped Toyota vehicles is finished.

For the LC 250, I’m still considering the Land Cruiser trim with the Stabilizer Disconnect Mechanism, however this system may drive me to a 1958 trim. I expect the Stabilizer Disconnect Mechanism could also be sourced from a vendor supplier since Toyota has no in-service experience with a similar system designed in-house. BMI Group appears to be the Ford supplier for their stabilizer bar disconnect system, and Toyota may have used this supplier for the Tacoma/LC 250 system. BMI’s system is fundamentally different from KDSS.

This appears to be an explanation of how it works on a Ford vehicle.
Stabilizer Bar Disconnect (How it Works).

 

[LC-120]

When did Toyota introduce this feature ?