LC Trim base level stereo

[chancellor]

Did you unhook the front door speakers, I assume, before that measurement? I’ll be honest, we seem to know about the odd DSP that is going on here, but why would they try and dip a 3.5-4” speaker down that low when they’re crossing a 6.5” with it in the door? Makes no sense and pushes the dash speakers too hard.

For reference, BeatSonic says they have a t-harness that will break out the audio in this device, the BH10. Not sure you can correct it all with some DSP/amp combo but I do wonder if that would work better.

These were full range sweeps with the hatch sub, door woofer, and dash speaker connected. I did sweeps earlier per channel to see their range. These were taken using the same midrange bookshelf speaker outside the LC with everything else disconnected.

I think the problem is the cutoff for the door (blue) looks like -18dB/octive and the ramp up into the dash (green) is 12dB/octive, so there ends up a dipbetween 300-1000Hz

 

[PurelyAbrasive]

There is great data in this thread. I am going to hold off getting any new speakers until the minds come to some conclusion. Thanks again!

 

[AlexGates]

I tossed some Alpine S2-S40 (4") speakers in there, I think I like these. They are sort of in-between the REF307 and the JL 350 IMHO*.

They will fit, with some work, you have to cut tabs off (obviously) and for some reason the pax side didn't want to line up with the screw holes. After cutting the driver's slide, I just went ahead and did the same to the pax, I should have dropped it in there and checked, I doubt it is going anywhere. You also have to tuck the OEM cable on the driver's side under the left part of the dash.

The driver's acts like it won't fit, even though these are a smidge less deep that the Hertz (which chancellor got to fit). You'll push and push on the glass end, but once you get the screw going, it'll lock down, the grills fit on both w/o issue.

I'm still screwing around with the EQ. The annoying thing is that XM/Sirrus (bad quality, I know) is pretty loud, enjoyable, on 20-25. Apple Music/iPhone (plugged in or BT) you have to jack the volume up to 30/35+ for it to be enjoyable, it doesn't get full until about 42'ish, and the bass really gets to shanking your mirrors/body after 50. I don't know what the iPhone's deal is, I've noticed this in my truck as well. There is no setting to correct this.

*Either in the thread on this forum or another, someone was talking about the psychology behind listening and how the longer you listen, the better it will sound, even if it is somewhat crap lol. So far, I think these are the best balance, I'm still messing with the "EQ."

I thought I blew the left tweeter during a song, I ran a frequency thing off YT, I'm pretty sure I cannot hear anything over 15khz. I'm not sure there is a big diff between 3.5" and 4", the sensitivity on the Alpine is 86db, so not as awful as the JL, not as good as the Infinity. The difference in the quality of the material also makes things a pain, one song sounds great, another terrible. Other than the garbage vocals, the OEM aren't really "bad" and it seems like most upgrades yield a minor improvement in one area or another, just not an all around improvement. The system does sound better, to me, with the "surround sound" turned on, it's just fuller, even with the OEM speaker. Stereo only just sounds like crap to me, which is odd because I have S/S turned off in my F150 (B&O).

I wonder if any improvement would come from dynamat or the like the area around the speakers. I've read a bit, some say yes, some say you would kill the mids because they can't breathe (I'm not so sure that is serious.)

​

 

[AlexGates]

Something else I was marinading on last light, if these were too bright. The reflections off the window can be an issue, I wonder if a nickel or quarter size piece of sound deadener or the like, stuck to the inside of the grill would knock that down. I may attempt it.

Props to Toyota on the quality of the speaker grills, I've probably pulled them 10x and they haven't broken or become deformed.

 

[ekkoville]

Something else I was marinading on last light, if these were too bright. The reflections off the window can be an issue, I wonder if a nickel or quarter size piece of sound deadener or the like, stuck to the inside of the grill would knock that down. I may attempt it.

Props to Toyota on the quality of the speaker grills, I've probably pulled them 10x and they haven't broken or become deformed.

I agree with everything you said, including the last bit about them possibly being a bit bright also. I felt they were too bright also, but I didn’t think they would fit under the grill so I never went further than a few listening sessions. As far as the window goes, that may certainly be an issue. I had some speaker foam left from some of the doors install so I put that around the JL350s, helped a bit but I’m still thinking they are a little distorted at some freq’s, so I may change them out.

 

[AlexGates]

I agree with everything you said, including the last bit about them possibly being a bit bright also. I felt they were too bright also, but I didn’t think they would fit under the grill so I never went further than a few listening sessions. As far as the window goes, that may certainly be an issue. I had some speaker foam left from some of the doors install so I put that around the JL350s, helped a bit but I’m still thinking they are a little distorted at some freq’s, so I may change them out.

Keep in mind that I have hearing damage, what I can get sometimes is a scratchy/crackly/distorted voice, this even happens with my home stereo (which isn't inexpensive by a long shot) depending on how I am facing it and the voice. I have held my hand up to the window and any brightness/harshness/crackle goes away. I had some old speaker cover cloth I threw over the grills, cut it down a tad. I Googled like a mad man and all I ever found was someone suggesting putting some cotton wool atop the tweeter. Anyone in the audio realm knows glass is a nightmare for highs and brightness, the LC is an aquarium (which is great for the driver.)

So we have upward firing speakers and the giant window, and an amp that probably isn't all that great quality wise. I'm sort of done with screwing with these speakers, but I still think the best bet is to get the Alpine S2 components (the quality is acceptable imho and the crossover looks small enough) and the replacement JBL A-pilliars, if it bothers someone enough. Hopefully with all the LC's/Tacoma's/4R's, someone will make a plug and play replacement amp, probably hoping for too much.

I am going to do the rear sub, becuse I'm not getting anything below 50hz and I'll probably do the doors, simply because I want to do the sound deadening. I'd like to try and take some of the boomy'ness out of the speakers.

Oddly, I don't know if the LC has better electronics or a better antenna, but XM/Sirius actually sounds pretty good in the LC compared to my F150, even though sat radio is of poor quality (it sounds even better if you run it off your phone app ). Obviously, streaming music services sound better.

 

[jptruck]

So, I added a sound deadener to the doors and floors, and it definitely helps. Much quieter, and low end sounds much better. No amp, but new speakers.

Here's the kicker, though: My LC frequently kicks me off CarPlay. No discernible reason why, but it still allows me to play over bluetooth I can be driving along, go to settings (happens when I can't push a non-existent CarPlay button), and hit the CarPlay enabler. When that happens, the sound gets MUCH better. Plugged in does not seem to make a difference, one way or another.

Why the LC or Toyota product does this is beyond me. Why can't it just keep the CarPlay setting without switching it off? Why does it sound better? Have no idea.

I don't think issues like this are isolated to Toyota, though. My old Discovery would kick me off, too. That one required you to plug in to the system to re-connect. No wire handy, tough luck.

Technology. Aint it grand.

 

[PurelyAbrasive]

So, I added a sound deadener to the doors and floors, and it definitely helps. Much quieter, and low end sounds much better. No amp, but new speakers.

Here's the kicker, though: My LC frequently kicks me off CarPlay. No discernible reason why, but it still allows me to play over bluetooth I can be driving along, go to settings (happens when I can't push a non-existent CarPlay button), and hit the CarPlay enabler. When that happens, the sound gets MUCH better. Plugged in does not seem to make a difference, one way or another.

Why the LC or Toyota product does this is beyond me. Why can't it just keep the CarPlay setting without switching it off? Why does it sound better? Have no idea.

I don't think issues like this are isolated to Toyota, though. My old Discovery would kick me off, too. That one required you to plug in to the system to re-connect. No wire handy, tough luck.

Technology. Aint it grand.

I have the same thing happen to me with my CarPlay. I end up going to the Bluetooth screen on the infotainment and just telling it to reconnect and it starts working again.

 

[AlexGates]

No kidding!?! that's why the LC keeps giving me "No Wifi" messages? I thought it was playing over BT the entire time.

CP won't drop me while driving, but sometimes it won't connect getting back into the vehicle after a stop, that is annoying.

Any idea how to disable Wifi? I'm pretty sure I have it disabled in my settings. There are multiple complaints about AppleMusic/iPhone playing lower volume than every other source.

I’m playing with it and it seems like it will only do AP over wifi, not BT. With all the interference driving around, that is plain silly. BT is the better choice IMHO. Was wondering why my BT never turned blue.

 

[Futha]

I’m playing with it and it seems like it will only do AP over wifi, not BT. With all the interference driving around, that is plain silly. BT is the better choice IMHO. Was wondering why my BT never turned blue.

Wireless CarPlay exclusively uses WiFi because it needs the connection speed to stream the UI to the car. The CarPlay interface is done by your phone, not the car. Not sure if you knew that, it's kind of wild.

The only way to avoid using WiFi for CarPlay would be to connect it via USB.

 

[AlexGates]

Wireless CarPlay exclusively uses WiFi because it needs the connection speed to stream the UI to the car. The CarPlay interface is done by your phone, not the car. Not sure if you knew that, it's kind of wild.

The only way to avoid using WiFi for CarPlay would be to connect it via USB.

Thank you, my other vehicle does it via BlueTooth.

 

[TrailWhale]

Thank you, my other vehicle does it via BlueTooth.

Wireless carplay uses both Bluetooth and WiFi. Bluetooth is not capable of the data transfer needed to drive the content on the display. It uses bluetooth for connection and discovery, and wifi is used for the data transfer of content and display.

 

[AlexGates]

My F150 does it off BT, it doesn't have wireless CarPlay, will only do music and phone.

I tossed in a 3.5" Kenwood, I don't notice much of a difference. The vocals are possibly more pronounced, I didn't cut the wires to the tweeter. I'm convinced the center speaker plays no matter what, I think the "surround sound" setting is just a DSP setting. Anyway, unless you have a 3.5" speaker laying around, I don't think the center is worth replacing, or at least should be the absolute last thing you should replace.

Still like the Alpine 4". The Kenwood may be a tad brighter.

 

[ekkoville]

I tossed in a 3.5" Kenwood, I don't notice much of a difference. The vocals are possibly more pronounced, I didn't cut the wires to the tweeter. I'm convinced the center speaker plays no matter what, I think the "surround sound" setting is just a DSP setting. Anyway, unless you have a 3.5" speaker laying around, I don't think the center is worth replacing, or at least should be the absolute last thing you should replace.

Still like the Alpine 4". The Kenwood may be a tad brighter.

Can’t recall, but you have the room on the drivers side for the dash grill on top of that slightly raised tweeter in the Alpine?

 

[AlexGates]

Can’t recall, but you have the room on the drivers side for the dash grill on top of that slightly raised tweeter in the Alpine?

Yep, not a problem. You'll be able to see the silver ring around the tweeter reflecting in the windshield, that could bother someone with major OCD.

When I tried to push it down by hand, I thought it wasn't going to fit (depth), but once I started tightening the bolts, no problem.

Oddly enough, installing the Kenwood 3.5" in the center made the vocals out of the L&R Alpines sound kind of scratchy. I removed the Kenwood and tossed the OEM back in and it went away. If it is a difference in sensitivity, brand, or my hearing, I couldn't tell you. I would say if someone is dead set on replacing the center, the Ref307's across the dash are likely the way to go, if one doesn't find them too bright/harsh, or another option that makes 3 3.5's that'll fit.

I still believe, that the a-pillar components are going to be the way to go, depending on if the highs bouncing off the windshield bother a person. So far, I am happy with the Alpines, or I'm just fed up.

 

[codemigs]

To Chancellor and anyone else who’s upgraded everything—fronts, rears, tweeters, center speaker, and sub—

What’s your current setup? What do you like about it, and is there anything you feel is missing? I have a GX (Lexus Premium Audio, which is Pioneer), and I’m pretty sure it uses the same or very similar components. I’d love to just follow someone’s proven setup and be done with it, since I don’t know much about speakers.

And in the original's post of chancellor, the diagram from Pioneer's article is the same as the one for the gx, it's just reversed. I haven't found any resources as detailed as this one, so excuse a GX owner for being here

 

[chancellor]

To Chancellor and anyone else who’s upgraded everything—fronts, rears, tweeters, center speaker, and sub—

What’s your current setup? What do you like about it, and is there anything you feel is missing? I have a GX (Lexus Premium Audio, which is Pioneer), and I’m pretty sure it uses the same or very similar components. I’d love to just follow someone’s proven setup and be done with it, since I don’t know much about speakers.

And in the original's post of chancellor, the diagram from Pioneer's article is the same as the one for the gx, it's just reversed. I haven't found any resources as detailed as this one, so excuse a GX owner for being here

I think the Morel sub and the infinity 6x9s made a big improvement, and adding sound deadening helped things even more. Of all the dash speakers I am liking the Hertz the most, the extra brightness helps overcome the loss from reflecting off the windshield.

I have been experimenting with the dash speakers trying to get them dialed in. I swapped their phase (flipped +/-) and that seems to have helped them blend with the doors a little better.

I also disabled the Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) following this to see if that was interfering at all. It did stop this annoying sound pulse (probably ANC calibrating made louder by the Morel sub?) every time I start the car, and now I can hear more of the engine, but I think I like it. The stereo sounds a little better too I think, but I didn't see anything really different on a frequency sweep (but with the engine off, so probably no ANC)

 

[chancellor]

Here is what I am running now, I think I will stick with this for a while. I think it would take a lot of work to get much more improvement (curious what a beat sonic actually does here)

Location	Description	Replacement
R/L Dash	3.5" (9cm) Full Range (woofer + tweeter) (4ohm)	Hertz DCX 100.3 4"
Center Dash	3.5" (9cm) Midrange (4ohm)	Infinity Reference REF307F 3.5"
Front Door	6x9" (18cm) Midrange (4ohm)	Infinity Reference REF697F 6"x9"
Rear Door	6.5" (16cm) Full Range (4ohm)	Infinity Reference REF607F 6.5"
Tailgate	8" (20cm) midbass (2.5ohm)	Morel MSW 265

 

[AlexGates]

I think the Morel sub and the infinity 6x9s made a big improvement, and adding sound deadening helped things even more. Of all the dash speakers I am liking the Hertz the most, the extra brightness helps overcome the loss from reflecting off the windshield.

I have been experimenting with the dash speakers trying to get them dialed in. I swapped their phase (flipped +/-) and that seems to have helped them blend with the doors a little better.

I also disabled the Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) following this to see if that was interfering at all. It did stop this annoying sound pulse (probably ANC calibrating made louder by the Morel sub?) every time I start the car, and now I can hear more of the engine, but I think I like it. The stereo sounds a little better too I think, but I didn't see anything really different on a frequency sweep (but with the engine off, so probably no ANC)

I went googling to find out about reversing the phase and came across this: Reddit, Rav4, reverse phase. Maybe you are on to something. Did you cut the Metra or just force it on there?

Maybe Toyota took into account the reflection off the windshield. I still want to do the JBL A-pillar, but there is literally one choice that looks like it will fit (crossover size being the issue), unless one wants to start cobbling things up, and I don't have the skill or patients to do that.

 

[chancellor]

Did you cut the Metra or just force it on there?

The Hertz have 2 wide spades instead of the normal 1-wide 1-narrow, so I had already swapped the small end on the metra with a wider one, so swapping the phase was easy