Is the 2024 Land Cruiser drive train proven?

Nuke

Nuke

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I am trying to think, is the 2.4 turbo longitudinal hybrid drive train proven? Yes, it is going to be available in the 2024 Tacoma, but has it been on the road and proven by customers? Possibly in a Lexus? I think the Aisin 8-speed automatic has been out for a spell, but not in the hybrid configuration with the wet clutch and electric boost motor. The thing is, even Toyota has teething problems. Granted, not on the scale of competitors, but still...
 
The answer is yes for Toyota’s vehicle testing team. The answer is unequivocally no for Toyota’s customers.

A deeper question is how far did they push the limits of proven technology and who was on the design team. The starter motor generator is commodity technology and should be okay as long as there are no fundamental flaws in the design requirements. Toyota has many customers who expect to abuse their vehicles by neglecting scheduled maintenance, and a 4Runner may be the best choice for them. Oil changes and cooling system maintenance will be essential to achieve optimal reliability on the LC 250. An example that comes to mind is periodic testing/replacement of the radiator cap to ensure the cooling system can pressurize properly.

I over-maintain my vehicles, so I’m probably not Toyota’s average customer.
 
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Wanderlost said:
The answer is yes for Toyota’s vehicle testing team. The answer is unequivocally no for Toyota’s customers.

A deeper question is how far did they push the limits of proven technology and who was on the design team.
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This why, if given a choice, I prefer Japanese design and manufacture. I look at the Tundra and Tacoma, and cringe. The Tundra cab must be lifted off the frame to service the turbos, of which have been problematic. The Tacoma, built in Mexico, has encountered faulty body welds. Also, possibly minute, but there are differences in quality between Japanese plants. The 2024 Land Cruiser 250 will be built in the Tahara and Hino facilities, of which the former has the better reputation for quality. The LC twin (not identical, obviously), the 2024 Lexus GX, as I understand it, will only be built at Tahara. Just a guess, but possibly the plain Jane LC 1958 will be built at Hino, and the more fully-featured "Land Cruiser" and the First Edition at Tahara?
 
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My preference is also for a Tahara built LC 250. I was hoping the all LC 250s would come from Tahara and maybe Hino would build the LC 70 series.

The Tundra wastegate controller issue seems to be a case of the supplier not meeting design requirements instead of a fundamental flaw in the design requirements. However, the severe environment inside the turbocharger may not be the best location for an electronic wastegate controller; this is one reason I’m not considering the GX 550.
 
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Wanderlost said:
this is one reason I’m not considering the GX 550.
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Seems I viewed somewhere that the turbo on the 2.4 is also located on the nearly inaccessible rear of the engine, which is tucked under the firewall. However, from what you infer, it must have a vacuum-operated wastegate?
 
Nuke said:
Seems I viewed somewhere that the turbo on the 2.4 is also located on the nearly inaccessible rear of the engine, which is tucked under the firewall. However, from what you infer, it must have a vacuum-operated wastegate?
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Someone in another thread stated that having the turbo reconditioned was a need down the road to prevent further problems. If it is that difficult to access, then my question would be to Toyota, Why? Some of the best car engineers in the world could surely foresee such a problem.
 
Nuke said:
Seems I viewed somewhere that the turbo on the 2.4 is also located on the nearly inaccessible rear of the engine, which is tucked under the firewall. However, from what you infer, it must have a vacuum-operated wastegate?
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My understanding from watching vlogger videos is the 2.4L engine turbo is on the right side of the engine compartment and hopefully easier to access on the LC 250. The turbo is mounted at the rear of the 2.4L engine on transverse configurations like the Crown and Grand Highlander. Also, the LC 250 2.4L engine will have a vacuum operated turbo wastegate controller based on the assumption there would not be justification to have multiple wastegate controller configurations across vehicles with the 2.4L engine.
 
Rocket said:
Someone in another thread stated that having the turbo reconditioned was a need down the road to prevent further problems. If it is that difficult to access, then my question would be to Toyota, Why? Some of the best car engineers in the world could surely foresee such a problem.
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YouTuber Scotty Kilmer reported a software fix for the Tundra wastegate issue, however this may have been a mitigation instead of a complete solution; the solution sounds like a complete replacement of the entire turbocharger assembly which includes the wastage controller.

My guess would be the V6 turbo location/configuration is a compromise for volumetric integration and commonality with other vehicles targeted to use this engine. The LC 250 will share some parts with the Tacoma and I’m okay with that. Admittedly, I would not be here if the LC 250 base price was $95k USD.
 
this is an interesting in depth review of Tundra I-Force Max Hybrid. Can someone confirm this information ?
1695584869380.png
 
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For some reason, the above refuses to play, in my case anyway. However, no surprise that above 18 MPH the IC engine is in constant operation. The hybrid system is basically for off-the-line performance, to aid what would be an underpowered vehicle without it. It is all about emissions primarily, and economy secondarily. As I recall, the hybrid Tundra did not gain that much MPG-wise over the previously strictly ICE version.
 
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Above is just a picture. Here is the link:


I still hope the information is not correct. Hybrid system should be able to turn off the engine anytime at any speed. I never heard about such speed limitation.
 
I think it is pretty standard for the hybrid system to work mainly at lower mph only. That is why all hybrids have better city mpg than highway mpg.
 
LC-120 said:
Above is just a picture. Here is the link:


I still hope the information is not correct. Hybrid system should be able to turn off the engine anytime at any speed. I never heard about such speed limitation.
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We have a '22 Prius, and it can drive in full EV mode up to 15 or 20mph. Above that the electric motor is used to supplement the power of the ICE, especially in cases of hard acceleration.
 
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One would think under very low load conditions, say coasting or downhill, the vehicle should shut down the ICE? However, not up to speed on how that system works with only one motor/generator.
 
JasonCz said:
We have a '22 Prius, and it can drive in full EV mode up to 15 or 20mph. Above that the electric motor is used to supplement the power of the ICE, especially in cases of hard acceleration.
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I agree. You can just drive a little bit and you can accelarate gently up to a certain speed on EV mode. But the engine should turn off when decelerating, coasting, downhill. Our Ford Fusion Hydrid does it at any speed. This is how you get the max efficiency, by driving on EV mode as much as possible. If you also have the possibility to adjust the regenerative braking is a big bonus.
On the highway it is not very helpful but it could be.... it you have lot of traffic !
 
I just discovered Toyota is selling TWO versions of hybrid Grand Highlander ! :rolleyes: Wow !
The 2.5-liter non-turbo inline-four and electric motors AWD returns 36/32 mpg city/highway, versus the 2.4 Turbo Hybrid MAX 26/27.

Gas Mileage of 2024 Toyota Grand Highlander

Search by Model. Search by make for fuel efficient new and used cars and trucks
www.fueleconomy.gov www.fueleconomy.gov

I would not think more than 90 sec which one to purchase. The XLE Hybrid AWD 8 seater (optional, the captain's chair is standard ;)).

Here are the prices in a picture.

1695643126149.png


Link of Grand Highlander hybrid XLE AWD presentation:
 
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I keep looking at the Highlander, and.....I'm guessing while I might be the target audience, the visual appeal isn't grabbing me. I'll wait for the LC.
 
Nuke said:
I am trying to think, is the 2.4 turbo longitudinal hybrid drive train proven? Yes, it is going to be available in the 2024 Tacoma, but has it been on the road and proven by customers? Possibly in a Lexus? I think the Aisin 8-speed automatic has been out for a spell, but not in the hybrid configuration with the wet clutch and electric boost motor. The thing is, even Toyota has teething problems. Granted, not on the scale of competitors, but still...
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According to this, it's already being used in a few vehicles. No long term use, but not new nonetheless:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/202...4-liter hybrid also,Lexus RX500h F Sport home:

The I-Force Max Is Not Exactly All-New​

When Toyota revealed that upper-level versions of the new 2024 Tacoma would come equipped with a hybrid engine, some may have been surprised. However, if you've been paying attention, the move away from the V-6 to the hybridized 2.4-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine wasn't all that shocking. (Entry-level Tacomas get the same 2.4-liter I-4 turbo engine, minus the hybrid stuff.) That's because we've already seen this hybrid powerplant a few times before it showed up under the hood of the new Tacoma pickup truck.

It made one of its first appearances in the 2023 Toyota Crown, transversely mounted in the sedan-UV's nose, where it sends 264 horsepower and 332 lb-ft of torque to the front axle and is aided by another electric motor turning the rear axle. The 2.4-liter hybrid also made its way into the new 2024 Toyota Grand Highlander—also transversely mounted—where it delivers 362 horsepower and 400 lb-ft. The same hybrid powerplant also calls the 2023 Lexus RX500h F Sport home.
 
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