Perspective of watching people here descend into madness...

bigthom

Member
Mar 11, 2025
21
Media
1
96
SF Bay Area
Vehicles
2025 Land Cruiser 1958
Loving the vibe here as compared to other cesspools of the internet. I am a going to offer a perspective to many of you that you need to hear....buckle up.

Me? I am an experienced off-road driving instructor with a few decades of experience in everything from type III fire rigs to open wheel buggies and endless "overland" driving before that was a word that we used.

Here is a short list of things for you to consider:

1. You can ruin a 4wd faster by bolting things to it than taking things away. HP per ton is important. A 4cy 4wd is great, until you make it live its life as a V8 4wd. Repeat after me; mechanical sympathy.

2. Here is a tale as old as time: I need more storage. I need a roof rack for storage. I buy a roof rack for more storage. I need a secure way to store things on this roof rack. I need a non-aerodynamic roam case or pelican box to mount to my roof rack. Spend, Spend, Spend. Goals accomplished...ish.

Alternative history; I need more storage. Get crossbars and a very aero Yakima box. Done.

The second option is cheaper, easier, less annoying and weighs less. If you want a roof rack for the looks? Go nuts. But, there is a better way, young padiwan.

I am not just talking about roof racks here. I have had the same 12v air compressor for 3 decades. It is fantastic. I have moved it around and lent it out. You can't do that if you are gonna hide it under the hood. If hiding air compressors in your truck blows wind up your skirt, fine. Go nuts. But, it is not better in any way. It's just more money.

3. EVERY OUNCE MATTERS. Every skid plate, light bar, seat cover and tool you carry matters. Weight matters. It adds up...fast.

4. I had a 1988 FJ62 for years. It was fantastic off-road...and terrifying everywhere else. The 250 is great on road. The road is how you get to where you are off-road. Its performance there is important, like really important. Statistically more important than the off-road performance. You are not Indiana Jones...I dig your spirit though...and hat. Is that an Akubra?

5. I have had stock 4wds clear obstacles with 3 min of rock stacking and a good spotter. It's your money, but, will you really be off-road enough to offset the loss of MPG, cost of suspension upgrades, tires and the like? Also, if you lift, swap tires, bolt things to...the LC 250 is gonna really lose some tow capacity and payload. How much? Well, we don't know...nor do you.

6. The cyclist Eddy Merckx used to say, "Don't upgrade rides, ride up grades." It applies here too. Get some training, get some practice and learn. Quiet confidence is better than a SEMA rig any day.

7. Good scotch is expensive. Good Bourbon is not. It isn't really important to this discussion, but true as hell. Johnny Drum is my go to.
 
Couldn’t agree more, especially on point #7. I’ll take Evan Willams Bottled in Bond though!
 
The world has made bourbon expensive. My neighborhood liquor store keeps Eagle Rare in the back room these days. Meanwhile I’m reading a Bret Easton Ellis book from 1991 where the protagonist (?) drinks J&B proudly.
 
bigthom, I don't have near the chops/palmares you do in the off-road world, but thank you for validating all my thoughts on the matter.

Funny... this made me think back to the time I wrenched in a bike shop in college. We didn't make a lot of margin/money on the bikes, we made it on all the accessories (helmets/shoes/locks). Just because there is a huge aftermarket for accessories for LC's doesn't mean you have to buy them!
 
Agreed on all counts. A lot of these forums seem to be a race of "how fast can I bolt a bunch of shit to my car before I ever even attempt to use it for what this shit is supposed to be for," which I often shorten to, "fuck my shit up, fam."

I've had mine since June. My only real additions so far were to have mine wrapped with XPel PPF and swapped the stock tires with a set of Falken Wildpeaks, each about a month after I bought it. And even then I think I went too quick and have at times regretted each of those modifications.
 
I love the sentiment of this post and ryanj and D-Train are spot on too. I'd love to have the resources to tinker more, and I don't begrudge those who do one bit. I backpack as much as I can and used to be of the mind to stuff as much as I could into my pack because it was fun to have some comforts of home in the backcountry(think good coffee and fresh food, mainly). But my legs aren't as young as they used to be and that stuff's HEAVY and frankly not necessary. Another thing I've tried go by is that I don't need to have something to handle every situation (so no, I don't need that leg splint). I think the same goes for our new LC. Yeah, I'd love to have recovery boards, better tires, a more complete skid plate, etc etc etc. But in reality, I don't need any of them right now. Our LC will mostly be used for forest service roads and the occasional trek off the beaten path and suspect in most circumstances we'll be just fine with the stock everything even if we go a bit more rugged than the average gravel backcountry highway everyone once in a while. I used to drive a stock Volvo 850 turbo wagon up some pretty remote and rugged roads and only had one major mishap - busted oil pan from lack of clearance and no skid plate. And while inconvenient, the adventure that followed is now one of my favorite stories to tell...
 
I am not trying to put down anyone who wants to do anything to their car. I am trying to let people know you do not need to do these things.

I'll circle back to bikes....when you get bored with a local trail on your fs mountain bike, try it again with a hard tail or better yet a gravel bike. It's all new, more challenging and way more fun. You pick different lines, flatten the curves.... Do that a few times and then try the FS again and watch your personal bests fall.
 
I wonder about some of the wheel & tire choices, actually. But my perspective is that I drive on roads and highways 99.x% of the time with an occasional trip up a fire road on my way to some hiking trailhead. For me, even an off-road all terrain tire might be more about aesthetics than use case. You guys can tell me I bought the wrong car if you want, and you might even be right - but I do enjoy the clearance and the general indifference to weather and road conditions these vehicles provide.

I put a set of Wildpeaks on my previous vehicle and sort of wished I’d not - they were E load rated, felt like rocks on our awful Colorado road surfaces, and the snow performance wasn’t as good as the Michelin Defenders I had on that truck prior. In two years running those, not once did I go up a road where I really needed them.

I’m forcing myself to drive down the Grandtreks because I already bought a set of Blizzaks for the winter. When I do replace the OEM tires in ~2 years I’m fairly likely to go with Defenders since they really are pretty good at everything. At most, a set of on-road all terains.

I realize this approach is about the way I use the car in the world, not about the way I might envision myself using it. The older I get, the more pragmatic.
 
Last edited:
Loving the vibe here as compared to other cesspools of the internet. I am a going to offer a perspective to many of you that you need to hear....buckle up.

Me? I am an experienced off-road driving instructor with a few decades of experience in everything from type III fire rigs to open wheel buggies and endless "overland" driving before that was a word that we used.

Here is a short list of things for you to consider:

1. You can ruin a 4wd faster by bolting things to it than taking things away. HP per ton is important. A 4cy 4wd is great, until you make it live its life as a V8 4wd. Repeat after me; mechanical sympathy.

2. Here is a tale as old as time: I need more storage. I need a roof rack for storage. I buy a roof rack for more storage. I need a secure way to store things on this roof rack. I need a non-aerodynamic roam case or pelican box to mount to my roof rack. Spend, Spend, Spend. Goals accomplished...ish.

Alternative history; I need more storage. Get crossbars and a very aero Yakima box. Done.

The second option is cheaper, easier, less annoying and weighs less. If you want a roof rack for the looks? Go nuts. But, there is a better way, young padiwan.

I am not just talking about roof racks here. I have had the same 12v air compressor for 3 decades. It is fantastic. I have moved it around and lent it out. You can't do that if you are gonna hide it under the hood. If hiding air compressors in your truck blows wind up your skirt, fine. Go nuts. But, it is not better in any way. It's just more money.

3. EVERY OUNCE MATTERS. Every skid plate, light bar, seat cover and tool you carry matters. Weight matters. It adds up...fast.

4. I had a 1988 FJ62 for years. It was fantastic off-road...and terrifying everywhere else. The 250 is great on road. The road is how you get to where you are off-road. Its performance there is important, like really important. Statistically more important than the off-road performance. You are not Indiana Jones...I dig your spirit though...and hat. Is that an Akubra?

5. I have had stock 4wds clear obstacles with 3 min of rock stacking and a good spotter. It's your money, but, will you really be off-road enough to offset the loss of MPG, cost of suspension upgrades, tires and the like? Also, if you lift, swap tires, bolt things to...the LC 250 is gonna really lose some tow capacity and payload. How much? Well, we don't know...nor do you.

6. The cyclist Eddy Merckx used to say, "Don't upgrade rides, ride up grades." It applies here too. Get some training, get some practice and learn. Quiet confidence is better than a SEMA rig any day.

7. Good scotch is expensive. Good Bourbon is not. It isn't really important to this discussion, but true as hell. Johnny Drum is my go to.
These are excellent points. Amazing how much all the eye candy adds up in weight and $$$ and ratio of HP to load capacity/towing. The LC 250 is plenty capable and comfortable off the shelf for what 90% of us weekend warriors will use it for.
 
I think the points should be taken well by everyone here. Yes, by all means, modify till your heart's content, but at the very least understand the tradeoffs. I think that's the main message here.

A lift and bigger tires and wheels will stress your CV joints and suspension components. They will reduce Mileage and stress your drivetrain more. They will reduce towing capacity. They will reduce the longevity and reliability of your ride.

These trucks are, as expected, prone to wind noise. A rack will increase that, some exponentially, and will reduce fuel efficiency. I have an LX470 I spent thousands on a roof rack setup that I hardly ever use. Totally agree, if it's only occasional, get cross bars and mount an aerodynamic box. Wish I hadn't been taken by the bad ass look back then cuz that sucker is never coming off.

On the other hand, I love seeing all the mods on here. So many great suggestions, and if you're not a big modder, so many that don't alter the mechanical integrity of the LC.
 
I can't disagree with most of the things previously said in this thread. I know very few people that have done suspension mods, tire mods etc........ that actually use the capability of the mod, but rather for ascetics. Some want 37" tires, to accommodate those tires........ of course suspension mods are a must and they look really slick! To those I say great job! There are those that have more stuff hanging off racks than I have stored in mine.......LOL and again looks great! Some have a minimal approach, and their rigs look just as good but on a different plane

I have too many electrical mods to count, cause that's what I like ....... others say "I'm crazy" and I'm ok with that.

I am a firm believer in "It's your vehicle, your money, do what you want"
 
Back
Top