Interesting update from Car Care Nut discussing the issues with the VF35A-FTS engine in the Tundra, Sequoia, LX etc...
Longevity of 2024+ LC
- Thread starter Marinna
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He's probably one of the most trusted and honest youtube mechanics / reviewers of Toyota/Lexus and other vehicles out there. Master certified Toyota technician. Wouldn't dismiss him so quickly. He grew up in Iraq where the reliability of Toyota engines was a necessity and they depended on them.
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Someone sent me his video saying that Toyota's 10k OCIs were wrong. Being a quality and production engineer for mass production engines, I was intrigued. How had he come to that conclusion? He said that an engine getting excessive blow by on the piston rings was due to oil change intervals without any data analysis, without considering a manufacturing or design defect, without any deep study into root cause, without any study of how the vehicle was driven, etc. He jumped straight to "the oil changes must not be frequent enough." Easily digestible solution for the layman.
Toyota owners, of course, care about durability above everything else so someone of some authority (a TOYOTA MASTER CERTIFIED TECHNICIAN) telling them that they've been "abusing" their vehicle by following the OEM maintenance schedule is triggering and that drives engagement. He chose to do the YouTube algorithm hot take that will get clicks by being manipulative and offering an easily digestible answer/solution rather than being honest and saying that he didn't truly investigate it. Look at the titles and the thumbnails of his videos. "don't do this one thing!" "is the XYZ worse than the old one?!" He's playing the algorithm. That raises red flags for me.
- Moderator
- #45
Are you a quality and production engineer for consumer vehicle engines? Where is the data to dispute his conclusion? We can safely go with 10K mile oil changes? Is it possible the duty cycle/use of a vehicle engine may be markedly different than your environment? I would love to go 10K miles between oil changes! Please elaborate.
- Moderator
- #46
So are you saying his logic of how oil is circulated through the engine and how he methodically came to the conclusion that trash adhered to the #1 main bearing was incorrect?
I agree with him, excess ring/bore/bearing wear is due to heat and excessive heat is due to the lack of lubrication. Lack of lubrication is often due to dirty oil. Often starting with a micro piece of something and worsening from there.
So his conclusion of "while the oil probably will last 10K miles, it doesn't hurt anything to change it at 5K is wrong how?
How did you come to your conclusion (quoting you) “without any data analysis, without considering a manufacturing or design defect”?
His deep dive on part number tends to support his conclusion.
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I’ll take Lake Speed Jr’s knowledge on oil change intervals and analysis over anyone any day and it lines up with Car Care Nut. I see a lot of ad hominem attacks from you trying to discredit him rather than refuting what he’s saying with data and facts. To each their own. You don’t have to agree with him.
If you watch the video, towards the end you’ll note they talk about how manufacturers are encouraged to increase oil change intervals as auto manufacturers get credit towards their CAFE standards for less waist.
If you watch the video, towards the end you’ll note they talk about how manufacturers are encouraged to increase oil change intervals as auto manufacturers get credit towards their CAFE standards for less waist.
I'm no longer working with engines. I've moved to electric motors. They were consumer engines.
The data to dispute it is the fact that Toyota has been doing 10k OCIs since 2009ish and there are tons of Toyotas out there with 300k+ miles on those OCIs. Toyota has a severe service schedule for towing, extensive idling (police, cab), off roading as well as having OCIs that are not 10k for engines with severe use cases (the 1.6L turbo in the GR Corolla calls out 5000 mile OCIs).
I can't really tell you want OCIs will work for you other than the manufacturers DO have the data and they designed the things with 10k OCIs in mind. If I didn't trust Toyota to spec an OCI, I wouldn't trust them to design a vehicle I was will to spend $70k on. Toyota's reputation is built on durability. It wouldn't make good business sense to risk that on something like OCIs.
I didn't say anything about the oil flow being wrong. He pulled that right out of the Toyota Instruction Standard that anyone with $25 can access. ( https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/appmanager/t3/ti?_pageLabel=ti_whats_tis&_nfpb=true ) I'm saying that without actually doing a deep dive with the actual failed parts and understanding the entire condition, it isn't the whole story. It's all speculation. Even working in that environment for many years, doing machining and engine assembly, I can't say what is causing it because there are a tons of different ways for the machining debris to manifest and end up at the bearing. Literally every passage that is between the filter and the main galley is a potential. Is it a machining chip that comes from a worn tool? Is it a worn out demurring brush? Washer nozzle knocked out of position? Washer nozzle that was set incorrectly from the machine builder? We don't know.
It won't hurt anything to change at 5k instead of 10k. There's also nothing that says it will be better to change it more frequently. Oil isn't a magic elixir that will save your engine from a design or manufacturing defect.
If you note, I'm not saying what is causing any of these issues. I know enough to know that there are potentially hundreds of root causes and shouldn't make a claim on what it is. That's a distinct difference.
- Moderator
- #50
The best details you'll probably ever get are from the guy a few pages back that commented on it.
There's really no benefit of publicly commenting on those things with deep detail because 1) people ate up with conspiracy theories won't accept it as we saw with the unintended acceleration thing [ghost in the machine lawsuits, faked recreations, etc] and 2) it's better to spend that energy taking care of the affected customers. Giving the issue a bunch of oxygen often makes it worse because someone will get their their truck inspected, be told that their truck isn't impacted, and then they take their engine apart in their garage to try to prove it is affected and it becomes a huge thing. People can be crazy and absolutely do things like that.
There's really no benefit of publicly commenting on those things with deep detail because 1) people ate up with conspiracy theories won't accept it as we saw with the unintended acceleration thing [ghost in the machine lawsuits, faked recreations, etc] and 2) it's better to spend that energy taking care of the affected customers. Giving the issue a bunch of oxygen often makes it worse because someone will get their their truck inspected, be told that their truck isn't impacted, and then they take their engine apart in their garage to try to prove it is affected and it becomes a huge thing. People can be crazy and absolutely do things like that.
- Moderator
- #52
I hear you qberg, but I believe in transparency. I really feel sorry for those with engines that, due to a manufacturing issue, have the potential to seize at any time.
Not having full transparency sucks, but that's the nature of business and people. I can see both sides of the situation having been on both sides.
If it makes you feel any better, the nature of manufacturing is such that any engine, even those with the best reputation, have the potential to seize at any time.
It just takes someone not doing their job the moment your engine is passing through their process. Buy from the manufacturer that you trust the most (I know, a bit like choosing which hand you'd prefer to have cut off) and hope for the best.
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