Ceramic coating , and paint protection

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tbounds02

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I have noticed that on price sheet from dealer it has PIO paint sealant and protection added , it also just has the word ceramic? Do they actually do a ceramic coating ?
I was going to to get a 5 layer self healing ceramic coating done , but if they already have done a ceramic coating . I am not sure I should do another coating immediately.
Does anyone have knowledge what the ceramic means in the options?
 
I don’t really know anything about ceramic coatings, but have read that it is an easy thing to do yourself. Could a person just by the products and apply to a new vehicle?
Anybody with experience in this?
 
Ceramic coatings can vary, but any reputable place will first decontaminate the car and perform a stage 1 paint correction before the coating is applied. If they aren't doing this, run away as fast as you can.

The prep and paint correction are actually most of what you are paying for, as the process to apply the actual ceramic is not particular difficult or time consuming.

Think of ceramic coatings as a semi-permanent wax which keeps the car shiny and makes cleaning it easier. It will not provide meaningful protection against scratches or damage (no matter what their marketing says).

If it's protection you want, then PPF is what you are looking for. For the LC you are probably looking at $6-8K to wrap the entire thing which IMHO is a complete waste on a car like this.
 
I was under the impression that the 5-7 ceramic with the self healing will fix light scratches . It works by being a thicker coat 5-7 coats and when it is heated will flow some to smooth out scratches . I have a black FE I am sure I will need all the help I can get to protect it.
I checked with my dealer about the ceramic they apply and it is simply a spray on deal . I asked them not to do it on mine , because it would only be something else to be removed before it can be properly Ceramic coated.
I have PPF on my Porsche and it has been in place for about 4 years . It begins to collect dirt around edges . If you don't remove every 4-6 years depending environment it is used and stored in , it will dry , crack discolor and be impossible to remove with out damaging paint requiring repaint .
I am having mine removed before and just ceramic coating it .
 
It will be better than nothing, but I would just temper your expectations on how much protection it provides. It will definitely help the car appear cleaner as less things will stick to it.

PPF has gotten a lot better over the past 10 years, and the current offerings from Xpel and Suntek won't have aging or cracking issues. Some of the older (and maybe even current) 3M products were/are definitely pretty bad, and would yellow and haze over within a year.

I do believe the port-installed PPF from Toyota is a 3M product, and it would be one of the first things to be removed if it was on my build.
 
tbounds02 said:
I was under the impression that the 5-7 ceramic with the self healing will fix light scratches . It works by being a thicker coat 5-7 coats and when it is heated will flow some to smooth out scratches . I have a black FE I am sure I will need all the help I can get to protect it.
I checked with my dealer about the ceramic they apply and it is simply a spray on deal . I asked them not to do it on mine , because it would only be something else to be removed before it can be properly Ceramic coated.
I have PPF on my Porsche and it has been in place for about 4 years . It begins to collect dirt around edges . If you don't remove every 4-6 years depending environment it is used and stored in , it will dry , crack discolor and be impossible to remove with out damaging paint requiring repaint .
I am having mine removed before and just ceramic coating it .
Click to expand...
Ceramic coating is a long lasting hydrophobic coating that makes washing the car easier. It provides absolutely no protection to the paint. If PPF is properly applied by a good installer, you should have very few visible lines where dirt can collect, the film should be wrapped around the edges where possible.
 
What paint correction is necessary for ceramic coating to be applied on a brand new vehicle?
Other than wiping paint down with alcohol
 
My understanding is that with the 5-7 coating of ceramic by Feynlab has a self healing property . I am sure it is not as protective as ppf , I just don’t want to worry with pealing ppf off in a few years
 
malba2366 said:
Ceramic coating is a long lasting hydrophobic coating that makes washing the car easier. It provides absolutely no protection to the paint. If PPF is properly applied by a good installer, you should have very few visible lines where dirt can collect, the film should be wrapped around the edges where possible.
Click to expand...


So this. I have PPF with a 12 year warranty on my Bronco and I have a 7 year ceramic coat. Lasers of Ceramic won’t protect it against scratches and self heal. If you think of it as clear coat, which it isn’t but just play along, you scratch a car with 7 layers of clear coat, the scratch may not make it to the paint, but it is a scratch in the finish. I am no ceramic engineer but I do not a ceramic that would be pliable to self heal.
 
tbounds02 said:
What paint correction is necessary for ceramic coating to be applied on a brand new vehicle?
Other than wiping paint down with alcohol
Click to expand...
New car paint is rarely ever perfect. You should always have a correction done before ceramic or PPF.
 
Sooo, DD214 kind of hits the nail on the head. I have never used a ceramic coating but many of my friends have. According to them it's the best thing ever........ however they can only use touchless car washes, numerous trips to touchup (under their warranty) and lots of "be careful there" at gatherings. To me it wasn't worth the seeming high price. My Tacoma gets about 3 washes a week (I have a car wash membership) with the ceramic wax etc.......... seems to be working well on the Barcellona Red paint. we'll see how the new black paint works.
 
EOD Guy said:
Sooo, DD214 kind of hits the nail on the head. I have never used a ceramic coating but many of my friends have. According to them it's the best thing ever........ however they can only use touchless car washes, numerous trips to touchup (under their warranty) and lots of "be careful there" at gatherings. To me it wasn't worth the seeming high price. My Tacoma gets about 3 washes a week (I have a car wash membership) with the ceramic wax etc.......... seems to be working well on the Barcellona Red paint. we'll see how the new black paint works.
Click to expand...
That Barcelona Red is dynamite. You're right about the ceramic. It will rub off if you're taking your vehicle through a non-touchless car wash.
 
EOD Guy said:
Sooo, DD214 kind of hits the nail on the head. I have never used a ceramic coating but many of my friends have. According to them it's the best thing ever........ however they can only use touchless car washes, numerous trips to touchup (under their warranty) and lots of "be careful there" at gatherings. To me it wasn't worth the seeming high price. My Tacoma gets about 3 washes a week (I have a car wash membership) with the ceramic wax etc.......... seems to be working well on the Barcellona Red paint. we'll see how the new black paint works.
Click to expand...

You can get a ceramic coat to last a long time if you treat it properly. Automatic car washes of any kind are pretty much a no go, even touchless ones as they use highly alkaline soaps to effectively remove road grime without agitation. Also when you have a coated car you should use a ceramic detailing spray a couple times a year as that basically puts another thin layer of SiO2 over the existing coating.
 
malba2366 said:
You can get a ceramic coat to last a long time if you treat it properly. Automatic car washes of any kind are pretty much a no go, even touchless ones as they use highly alkaline soaps to effectively remove road grime without agitation. Also when you have a coated car you should use a ceramic detailing spray a couple times a year as that basically puts another thin layer of SiO2 over the existing coating.
Click to expand...
I'm good..... bang isn't worth the buck.
 
Every shop just keep telling me how great PPF and ceramic coating is and how permanently they can last.... blah blash blah. I feel I never get a balanced view on realistic expectation.

Given LC is a car with extraordinary endurance, I highly doubt that the $5K PPF and ceramic coating I invest in today on LC can stay intact after say 10 or 15 years. I would want to understand when they degrade, what can I expect and options I have to do some restoration.

Like many have already said, $5K is so high that you might as well repaint it when the time is up. (or not to repaint it, probably nobody would care whether a 2024 Land Cruiser is still shining or not at the year of 2040 when you meet them on the trailhead) I think this J250 will not be a legendary variant in the LC family, so should I just use these money for something more practical (i.e. more proactive maintenance, aftermarket modes... etc) ?
 
Last edited:
Marinna said:
Every shop just keep telling me how great PPF and ceramic coating is and how permanently they can last.... blah blash blah. I feel I never get a balanced view on realistic expectation.

Given LC is a car with extraordinary endurance, I highly doubt that the PPF and ceramic coating I invest with a $5K on LC today can stay intact after say 10 or 15 years. I would want to understand when they degrade, what can I expect and options I have to do some restoration.

Like many have already said, $5K is so high that you might as well repaint it when the time is up. (or not to repaint it, probably nobody would care whether a 2024 Land Cruiser is still shining or not at the year of 2040 when you meet them on the trailhead)
Click to expand...
I have done PPF and ceramic coating on my previous (2) 4Runners and now the LC. The average length of time for PPF is 4-5 years then it will need to be reapplied as it will crack and discolor. As for the ceramic coating, if you get the "lifetime", it will last 5-7 years before it need to be re-applied. With that being said, you will need to go back every 6 months and do a refresh, which costs the same as a detailing job, mine are $125 for the "warranty". Ceramic coating is great for protecting the paint from bird droppings and light dirt and dust, car cleans exceptionally well and is quick and easy. Some coating say they protect against scratching, this is very light scratching, it will not protect your vehicle from off-roading and scraping some over hanging branches. Hope this helps with your questions.
 
Dark_Horse said:
I have done PPF and ceramic coating on my previous (2) 4Runners and now the LC. The average length of time for PPF is 4-5 years then it will need to be reapplied as it will crack and discolor. As for the ceramic coating, if you get the "lifetime", it will last 5-7 years before it need to be re-applied. With that being said, you will need to go back every 6 months and do a refresh, which costs the same as a detailing job, mine are $125 for the "warranty". Ceramic coating is great for protecting the paint from bird droppings and light dirt and dust, car cleans exceptionally well and is quick and easy. Some coating say they protect against scratching, this is very light scratching, it will not protect your vehicle from off-roading and scraping some over hanging branches. Hope this helps with your questions.
Click to expand...
That is the part I don’t trust the shop. They claim PPF under ceramic coating is a lifetime. Anybody with common sense understand nothing last forever. So according to your experience even just for ceramic coating it is $1500 plus $125x20. The cost including tax and inflation over ten years is potentially over $5K already.

So the part of my argument that is subjective is that keeping our LC shining and splashing really worth this much money? When I drive my LC at 2040, would I care more how good it looks, or how well it runs on and off pavement?

I do, however, want to tint my window as it is more functional rather than aesthetic. Without it everything inside the cabin degraded at least several times faster given I live in southern state close to the desert.
 
tbounds02 said:
I have noticed that on price sheet from dealer it has PIO paint sealant and protection added , it also just has the word ceramic? Do they actually do a ceramic coating ?
I was going to to get a 5 layer self healing ceramic coating done , but if they already have done a ceramic coating . I am not sure I should do another coating immediately.
Does anyone have knowledge what the ceramic means in the options?
Click to expand...

There are different types of ceramic coatings...

DYI - Cheap, doesn't last long...
5-Year Warranty - Cost upwards of $1,200
7-Year Warranty - Cost upwards of $1,400
 
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