Hello!
- Thread starter Doomed
- Start date
I agree. Many of the challenges in manufacturing are resolving themselves, so while I don't predict vehicle pricing to come down, I do think the craziness will end soon.
- Moderator
- #5
I personally think $55K is asking a bit much for the entry-level LC. For the same price, the 4Runner TRD Pro is a steal.
Welcome! I'm also interested in the 1958 trim. I expect Toyota has accurate cost estimates. We should see official pricing and trim details from Toyota in the coming weeks.
Man, I hope you're right! Tacoma was intro'd back in May, and still no pricing. Even the car reviewers have yet to be able to drive it. As for the LC, the launch was 2-1/2 months after the Tacoma. Really hoping we get details quicker than with the Tacoma.
I haven't driven (or even been inside) a late gen 4Runner, so I don't have a real solid opinion.
Just to add to the conversation: compare 270hp (4Runner) vs 326hp (Land Cruiser) and 278 ftlbs torque vs 456 ftlbs in the new LC.
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Then look at the MPG. 4Runner: 17 mpg combined. Land Cruiser: *27mpg combined. (*estimated).
Americans average 13,500 miles per year. Today's cost per gallon national average is $3.55/gallon.
13,500 miles in the 4runner will cost ~$2819.00. In the LandCruiser the same milage will cost you ~$1775.00. A difference of $1044/year. If you only own the truck 10 years that's still $10,440 cheaper cost of ownership (looking at that single metric).
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- Moderator
- #9
For sure, amazing the HP and torque they can pump out of the turbo 4-banger, and the electric motor helps a bit. Longevity and reliability might be another story. 300K+ miles are not unusual for a 4Runner. A comparable LC to the 4Runner TRD Pro or Limited is not going to be the 1958 trim level. To make it apples to apples, the First Edition might be the one to compare.
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- Oct 1, 2023
- 26
- 41
- Vehicles
- Soon: 2024 Land Cruiser, Back in the day: 1993 V6 Deluxe Pickup, Current: 2019 Ford Ranger Lariat FX4
Yes but the 4Runner's marginal on-road handling, dated chassis & passenger cabin, minimal modern features, terrible fuel economy, and lackluster power, leave a lot to be desired. Add the fact that the 2025 4Runner's all new design is only a year away, and the final year of the current 4Runners may not be such a "bargain" at their healthy price point.
The 1958 LC is quite well outfitted as a "base" model, and is priced more in line with its competitors, and even the Bronco. I personally think in today's dollars, the new LC's estimated price points are reasonable.
- Moderator
- #11
Cannot compare until we have some driving tests of the 2024 LC, but our 4Runner Limited with the X-RES suspension system was perfectly acceptable on the highway in my opinion. Both vehicles are body-on-frame, solid rear axle, so I would be surprised if the LC will handle appreciably better. As mentioned, absolutely agreed, dismal fuel and a bit lacking in power. A normally aspirated, port-injected, conservative, renowned for reliability, V6.
I would agree the 1958 LC is somewhat well outfitted for off-roading, but the reviews have indicated hard plastics abound, it has the smaller screen over the other variants, street tires, cloth seats, and I could go on...
Question bandit67, will your dealership be letting the new LC out the door for MSRP? This could have a real bearing on the total cost of ownership over, say, the 10 years you mentioned.
All said, I still covet the new LC, but if dealers tack on an appreciable markup, will look for alternatives, such as the 2024 Lexus GX, especially when the hybrid is made available.
I would agree the 1958 LC is somewhat well outfitted for off-roading, but the reviews have indicated hard plastics abound, it has the smaller screen over the other variants, street tires, cloth seats, and I could go on...
Question bandit67, will your dealership be letting the new LC out the door for MSRP? This could have a real bearing on the total cost of ownership over, say, the 10 years you mentioned.
All said, I still covet the new LC, but if dealers tack on an appreciable markup, will look for alternatives, such as the 2024 Lexus GX, especially when the hybrid is made available.
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- Thread starter
- #12
To be honest I have been targeting a Bronco Black Diamond for about 2 years now. As I have been waiting the prices continue to climb coming dangerously close to the 50k mark with the V6, hard top, 4door. Now we are talking two completely different vehicles and the quality differences will be a factor for me too. Gas mileage as @2ndTsilent said will be better in the 1958. I really like the base and want the least amount to gadget’s possible.
- Oct 1, 2023
- 26
- 41
- Vehicles
- Soon: 2024 Land Cruiser, Back in the day: 1993 V6 Deluxe Pickup, Current: 2019 Ford Ranger Lariat FX4
My dealership will be selling Land Cruisers at MSRP.
I actually have a fully loaded Bronco Outer Banks Sasquatch on order since last spring, after attempting to wait out the madness for a couple years. I then began trying to order in early 2022. We've also tried, for months, to find a fully loaded Bronco Wildtrak at MSRP to no avail. I am pretty confident our Bronco wont get built, and now that I have the info that's been put out so far on the LC, I think that's a better fit for us than the Bronco, so we're now anxiously awaiting the LC.
As to the "plastic" complaints, I tend to call BS on a lot of that, on vehicles across the board. For example, I see internet gripes about the Ranger all the time, and there are numerous specific areas that folks say are cheap hard plastic that are not - they are the man-made padded soft touch materials. Same goes for a couple areas on the LC that are pointed out, but many of the current Toyotas do not have cheap hard plastics in those areas, so again, I think it's more of "I want my online post to be relevant" even if it is not quite true.
I actually have a fully loaded Bronco Outer Banks Sasquatch on order since last spring, after attempting to wait out the madness for a couple years. I then began trying to order in early 2022. We've also tried, for months, to find a fully loaded Bronco Wildtrak at MSRP to no avail. I am pretty confident our Bronco wont get built, and now that I have the info that's been put out so far on the LC, I think that's a better fit for us than the Bronco, so we're now anxiously awaiting the LC.
As to the "plastic" complaints, I tend to call BS on a lot of that, on vehicles across the board. For example, I see internet gripes about the Ranger all the time, and there are numerous specific areas that folks say are cheap hard plastic that are not - they are the man-made padded soft touch materials. Same goes for a couple areas on the LC that are pointed out, but many of the current Toyotas do not have cheap hard plastics in those areas, so again, I think it's more of "I want my online post to be relevant" even if it is not quite true.
EXACTLY why I've skipped over this 4Runner. I've been dying to to replace my Tundra for something that I can park in my garage, has better fuel economy, and has a place for my to keep junk like my fishing gear without loading up the back seat. I was seriously thinking about the 4Runner, but after driving a few, decided it was pointless to get something that gets MARGINALLY better mileage than what I'm already driving, yet has yawn-inducing power, and is due for an update. For me, a hybrid engine with good fuel economy and good power are must-haves in any new vehicle.
Had they not kept delaying it's launch, I'd likely be a new edition 4Runner owner by now, but I really like how understated and utilitarian the new LC is, and the fact it's a few inches bigger (but not many) is a bonus.
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For the record: Not arguing with you, just sharing more background about how I've arrived at some of my own opinions.
I agree, the 1E is a better direct comparison to the TRD PRO 4Runner. But still, looking at the same 10 year ownership and fuel prices, overall cost is likely going to be somewhat comparable (pending final pricing for the 1E of course). Now ask yourself "For the same or similar money (*over 10 years), would I take the TRDPro 4Runner or the 1E Land Cruiser?" I'm heavily LC biased, but who would take the 4Runner? (my 10 year comparison isn't perfect. Keep in mind, most people will be financing their purchases, so there is interest difference to consider (you don't pay interest on gas), and we don't even have real LC pricing to use, and a ton of other things. Just trying to keep it simple.
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I think we keep comparing the new LC to the current 4Runner because that is the closest sized off-road focused Toyota we have in market. Alternately, we compare it to the Prado because it is replacing the Prado line abroad (current 4Runner is sort of the U.S. version of the Prado/ on the Prado chassis). The reality is, that the new LC/Prado is a closer cousin to the 300 series (TNGA-F platform) and the new Sequoia and Tundra and the next Tacoma, and the next 4Runner, and Hi-lux, than it is to the outgoing Prado.
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I will be curious to find out how they position the next 4Runner. How will they differentiate it from the Land Cruiser. Currently, size seems too close. Price point would be expected to be lower than the LC, so it can't get much more expensive. Base 4Runner is currently ~$41k, so I'm guessing base prices for the lineup next year will go something like: Tacoma ~$35k, Tundra ~$40k, 4Runner ~$45k, Land Cruiser ~$55k, Sequoia ~$60k, GX550 ~$60k, LX600 ~$82k. And throw a mini cruiser in there somewhere (FJCruiser replacement), and MAYBE an EV Land Cruiser???
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I'm personally not that stressed about reliability. Toyota has a pretty good track record.
I was chatting with Marcus Umlauff (General Manager, Toyota Trucks USA) last year... Toyota is EXTREMELY careful with the Land Cruiser name when it comes to durability and reliability. At the time, he was careful to not let slip that the new LC was in the works, but looking back on the conversation, I get the vibe that the reason the new LC didn't come out immediately when they discontinued the 200 series in the U.S. is because they were still shoring up the engineering to make sure it doesn't soil the heritage of the name. They've always competed with Honda when it comes to reliability, but recently Kia and Hyundai are starting to compete in that arena with very reliable, lower priced, and better warrantied vehicles. I don't see them ever risking their reputation for reliability. This is also why their trucks tend to get so long in the tooth before they refresh them. Toyota's goal isn't to bring the latest technology to market first. They prefer proven, reliable (older by definition) technologies.
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Having been "hands on" with all three preproduction trims, this truck is going to be awesome. I was literally putting a deposit down on a low-miles 75 series fire truck (4-door) coming in from Japan the day they announced the LC250. I'm glad I waited. People are mad we didn't get the 300 series. The 300 series is a linebacker. Strong? YES. but for me, way bigger (and way more expensive) than I want. The 250/4Runner-ish size is my jam. Big enough for 2 kids and 2 dogs, without sacrificing too much dexterity.
This is an interesting discussion. A Toyota representative hosting a 2022 Tundra reveal at the Seattle Center during a major 2021 arts event said Toyoyta "is going to kill it" when I asked about the 4Runner. I was shocked at the time and didn't believe it.
Agree with all of this. Especially these 2 parts:
1. "Toyota is EXTREMELY careful with the Land Cruiser name when it comes to durability and reliability."
2. "Now ask yourself "For the same or similar money (*over 10 years), would I take the TRDPro 4Runner or the 1E Land Cruiser?"
These sum up perfectly why I've decided to not wait for the 4Runner, and get the Land Cruiser instead. I plan to give this thing to my daughter in 10 years or so.
"We're not here to take part, we're here to take over."
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