Keyless entry issue after sound deadening the door

[treadmark]

Hey, everyone

I added dynamat xtreme to my driver door. I used it in a number of areas, including sections of the inside of the outer panel, the inner facing panel, and the inside of the door card. I would call my application targeted, so it was far from complete coverage. It was effective and improved the sound quality from the speaker, while removing the rattling of the door that I was experiencing.

An interesting side effect is that it apparently is shielding a sensor or antenna such that grabbing the door handle no longer unlocks the doors. Touching the door handle, however, does lock the doors. After which, I get a message the driver door is not locked, despite it definitely being locked. So, I assume I created a faraday cage with the metal liner of the dynamat blocking the signal to/from a sensor or antenna. To make sure I remove the appropriate piece(s), can anyone tell me where the sensors/antennas are located in the door and/or vehicle that I may have impacted? TIA

 

[EOD Guy]

This may help

 

[treadmark]

Thanks, EOD. I had seen that diagram. Last night I found some electrical parts diagrams relevant to the keyless door locks that helped. Toyota’s diagrams don’t easily help with correlating the item number in the diagram with the respective part number/desc, but I have a decent idea of where to remove some of the sound deadening. I want to minimize the number of times I remove the door panel, so I hope I’m successful on my first try.

 

[DctrEvil]

@treadmark Hi! Did you ever track down the keyless entry issue? I was just about to install some Kilmat adhesive panels myself and wanted to do it correctly the first time. My hope is to make the driver door sound a little heavier when opening and closing and to stop a nagging little rattle that domes from somewhere inside the door.

 

[treadmark]

Hey, everyone

Quick update. I spent time removing some of the Dynamat Xtreme from the inside door panel/car where I thought it might be blocking signal transmission from the door handle's electronic system and the antenna that is somewhere in the center console area. I still do not know exactly where any antenna or sensor is located in the door itself. It seems access to Toyota's parts/systems diagrams is not as easy as it once was (according to other forums, since this is my first Toyota).

At this time, I have inconsistent behavior. The door still locks physically when touching the handle. It now unlocks the door most (not all) times when grabbing the handle. When all the doors are locked, I still get a message from the mobile app that the driver door is open. I also get a message it cannot lock the doors remotely when using the app.

It's interesting that I'm not having issues with the passenger door. I'm realizing I had added a bit more of the Dynamat to the upper inside of the driver door that I did not remove. I thought since it was in an already area of metal, that it shouldn't be a problem. I'll try removing it to see if that finally fixes the problem.

On a positive note, the JL Audio C2 6x9s I installed in the front doors improved the sound quality. Them, along with the sound deadening, extremely reduced rattling/resonance (some minor with certain songs). I'm still very surprised the stock JBL system rattled the doors so much. My other, much less costly vehicles, rarely had such an issue.

 

[chris_in_phx]

This is kinda weird. I cant tell - does the dynamat have metal in it that would create a barrier for the wireless signal?

Its also very strange the psgr door works fine…are you sure it’s not maybe a connection issue? Maybe a loose connector when you installed?

Also the mobile app telling you your door is still open sounds like a bad connection to me - that shouldn't have anything to do with the dynamat materials, right?

 

[treadmark]

This is kinda weird. I cant tell - does the dynamat have metal in it that would create a barrier for the wireless signal?

Its also very strange the psgr door works fine…are you sure it’s not maybe a connection issue? Maybe a loose connector when you installed?

Also the mobile app telling you your door is still open sounds like a bad connection to me - that shouldn't have anything to do with the dynamat materials, right?

Dynamat Xtreme does have a metal layer. Considering our owner's manual states metallic wrappers can interfere with the signal, it does make sense it could cause a problem. These are, as I understand it, weak RFID (or RFID-like) sensors, so it's easy to disrupt the signal. The antennas for the keyless lock systems are in the center console, so I'm somehow blocking the one from the driver door only...and subsequently the app is blind to that door. There are a couple pieces of the Dynamat in the driver door that are not the same as on the passenger side. I'll remove those and see what happens.

 

[D-mac]

I'm wondering if the thin metal version of Dynamat (Superlite), or non-metallic (DynaCore) would prevent issues with the door lock/keyless entry? It looks like if you want more sound insulation, you could add the non-metal Dynaliner on top of the Superlite.

 

[RideWithYanu]

[...]
I still do not know exactly where any antenna or sensor is located in the door itself. It seems access to Toyota's parts/systems diagrams is not as easy as it once was (according to other forums, since this is my first Toyota).
[...]

The diagrams and repair manuals are all available on Technical Information System (TIS). 25 USD will get you unlimited access for 2 days.

Here's what the unit looks like (called the ELECTRICAL KEY AND TPMS RECEIVER ASSEMBLY / part number 897B0A):

 

[treadmark]

Well, I noticed occasionally if I locked the door using the interior button or the mechanical latch by the interior handle, the door would unlock properly when touching the exterior handle. I decided to toggle it between lock and unlock a bunch of times from the interior and now all seems to be working. So, now I’m assuming disconnecting the power to the door mechanism had something out of sync or something wasn’t making appropriate contact within the mechanism until toggling back and forth. …or I’m just losing my mind.

 

[treadmark]

I'm wondering if the thin metal version of Dynamat (Superlite), or non-metallic (DynaCore) would prevent issues with the door lock/keyless entry? It looks like if you want more sound insulation, you could add the non-metal Dynaliner on top of the Superlite.

Thank you. I had added 1/4” Dynaliner on top of the Dynamat, and used it elsewhere within the door. This is the first time I’ve used deadening to such an extent and I’m impressed. It’s really helped with the rattling and improved the sound quality of the speakers.

 

[DctrEvil]

I did the sound insulation this last weekend and all went well. Easy to get off all four inner door panels, just being careful with clips and plugs. Added as much Kilmat (about 4-5 rectangle pieces each) as I could to inner surface of the outer door panels and the opposite surface inside the cavity. Essentially lining the entire inner cavity of the door, being careful to not get in the way of any window clearance or wiring. I avoided adding any right around the exterior door handle and anywhere around the thing that looks like a round antenna (with a wire plug running into it) just opposite and a little lower than the exterior door handle. The keyless entry works normally - with normal handle touch to unlock and lock.

And I can say that it has made a big difference in the heft of the door. Now with opening and closing the doors, you get that classic "thud" that an expensive, well built, solid vehicle should have. I do believe that it has made a bit of difference in road noise as well.

 

[Trailman]

I did the sound insulation this last weekend and all went well. Easy to get off all four inner door panels, just being careful with clips and plugs. Added as much Kilmat (about 4-5 rectangle pieces each) as I could to inner surface of the outer door panels and the opposite surface inside the cavity. Essentially lining the entire inner cavity of the door, being careful to not get in the way of any window clearance or wiring. I avoided adding any right around the exterior door handle and anywhere around the thing that looks like a round antenna (with a wire plug running into it) just opposite and a little lower than the exterior door handle. The keyless entry works normally - with normal handle touch to unlock and lock.

And I can say that it has made a big difference in the heft of the door. Now with opening and closing the doors, you get that classic "thud" that an expensive, well built, solid vehicle should have. I do believe that it has made a bit of difference in road noise as well.

Kilmat

Is this what you ordered and is this enough to do all 4 doors?

 

[treadmark]

Kilmat

Is this what you ordered and is this enough to do all 4 doors?

I used Dynamat Xtreme and Dynaliner 1/4”

 

[uraniumrich]

I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious - even if the Dynamat has metal, the door is also metal. So, if it was a Faraday cage, then I'd think you would've had this issue before installing the dynamat. The entire car is a Farady cage - protects us in case of the inevitable lighting strike?

 

[treadmark]

I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious - even if the Dynamat has metal, the door is also metal. So, if it was a Faraday cage, then I'd think you would've had this issue before installing the dynamat. The entire car is a Farady cage - protects us in case of the inevitable lighting strike?

There are sections where there is no metal, such as the area around the locking and handle mechanism. There are antennae along the inside of the center console area, so it would be safe to say a layer of metal could block the signal.

 

[uraniumrich]

There are sections where there is no metal, such as the area around the locking and handle mechanism. There are antennae along the inside of the center console area, so it would be safe to say a layer of metal could block the signal.

All of the areas where you place the Dynamat are metal. But, a Faraday cage doesn't need to be solid, anyway. It has nothing to do with the thickness of the metal.

 

[treadmark]

All of the areas where you place the Dynamat are metal. But, a Faraday cage doesn't need to be solid, anyway. It has nothing to do with the thickness of the metal.

All the places where you can place Dynamat are not metal on the door. There are plastic sections. Yes, you typically wouldn’t put the Xtreme there and use the Dynaliner instead, but I admittedly put the Xtreme on plastic areas. The use of Faraday cage may not have been wholly accurate. I should have stated the metal foil could be blocking the signals, (such as a metal gum wrapper can make your fob not be detected). Ultimately, as noted above, I believe the problem was with the mechanism and not any blockage of signal. Though, I’m admittedly not certain either way.

 

[ekkoville]

I’ve experienced the same thing. I also have added some sound deadening in the front doors, Amazon brand however. I didn’t cover the panel, just some strategic areas of metal. In fact right after I installed the speakers and deadening it took about three or four power off cycles for it to catch up to the state of the mirrors and the keyless entry. Since that point, it’s mostly fine. I can’t confirm, but I “thought” that I’d seen it prior to doing the doors, having trouble recalling. Rest assured @treadmark , you’re not alone.

 

[uraniumrich]

All the places where you can place Dynamat are not metal on the door. There are plastic sections. Yes, you typically wouldn’t put the Xtreme there and use the Dynaliner instead, but I admittedly put the Xtreme on plastic areas. The use of Faraday cage may not have been wholly accurate. I should have stated the metal foil could be blocking the signals, (such as a metal gum wrapper can make your fob not be detected). Ultimately, as noted above, I believe the problem was with the mechanism and not any blockage of signal. Though, I’m admittedly not certain either way.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I agree 100% that the issue was with the circuit, not with the Dynamat. I'm 100% certain that the Dynamat was not the issue. The smart key sensor consists of two parts, both of which would be located outside the vehicle in the door handles. Each door handle has both a receiver and a capacitive sensor. The receiver would recognize that the correct key fob is in close proximity and the capacitive sensor would detect when we touch the door (the human body is like a huge capacitor). In addition, we would similarly have a receiver located on the exterior of the rear hatch, but not a capacitive sensor. Instead, we have to manually push the button to activate the door. In any case, the receivers need to be on the exterior to see the electromagnetic field generated by the key fob.