Fuel economy discussion using Tacoma as a reference

[TLC]

I'm trying to imagine what the Fuel Economy on the Land Cruiser will be when it launches. I've seen the screenshots from the Toyota site showing the 27 MPG estimated (before they removed it).

For comparison, I'm looking at a window sticker for the 2024 Toyota Tacoma with a similar powertrain.

Here are the specs:
TACOMA SR5 4X4 DOUBLE CAB

MECHANICAL & PERFORMANCE

• i-FORCE 2.4L 4cyl Turbocharged Engine
• 8-Spd Automatic Transmission
• 4WDemand: Part-Time 4x4 Sys w/2-Speed Electronically Controlled Transfer Case

FUEL ECONOMY AND ENVIRONMENT
21 MPG Combined
24 MPG Highway
19 MPG City

So here's my question... Is it reasonable to think that LC will get 27 MPG combined? It seems like a stretch that it would pick up an additional 6 MPG over the Tacoma, considering the powertrain is similar and the Tacoma is possibly more aerodynamic.

My guess is that the LC will end up with specs that match the Tacoma.... 21 MPG combined.

Thoughts?

 

[mkg]

That's a different engine though, check out the model with the IForce Max.

 

[TLC]

That's a different engine though, check out the model with the IForce Max.

You’re right. How did I miss that? So the IForce Max with the Hybrid motor is rumored to get up to 30mpg highway in a Tacoma.
Now I’m scratching my head wondering how that works… let’s say you’re cruising on the highway for a couple hours. Wouldn’t the hybrid battery be depleted at some point leaving you driving using just the gas engine? Essentially just the 2.4L iForce ? Anyone know how’s this works?

 

[Nuke]

You’re right. How did I miss that? So the IForce Max with the Hybrid motor is rumored to get up to 30mpg highway in a Tacoma.
Now I’m scratching my head wondering how that works… let’s say you’re cruising on the highway for a couple hours. Wouldn’t the hybrid battery be depleted at some point leaving you driving using just the gas engine? Essentially just the 2.4L iForce ? Anyone know how’s this works?

In the case of the Tacoma hybrid system, it is essentially for a "boost" when needed. Yes, it will help a tad for highway MPG, and a bit more for city. I suspect with highway driving it would be rare to be running on battery power. Yes, essentially just the 2.4L iForce. Doing the math, one will probably never recover the additional cost of the hybrid, guessing at $3K+ additional. But, if one needs the additional HP and torque, say for getting off the line pulling a trailer, then possibly justified. i don't expect to see 30 MPG on the highway, but rather 27, give or take a mile/gallon.

 

[TLC]

In the case of the Tacoma hybrid system, it is essentially for a "boost" when needed. Yes, it will help a tad for highway MPG, and a bit more for city. I suspect with highway driving it would be rare to be running on battery power. Yes, essentially just the 2.4L iForce. Doing the math, one will probably never recover the additional cost of the hybrid, guessing at $3K+ additional. But, if one needs the additional HP and torque, say for getting off the line pulling a trailer, then possibly justified. i don't expect to see 30 MPG on the highway, but rather 27, give or take a mile/gallon.

I was doing some more research on this. Toyota has been using Atkinson cycle engines on some hybrid vehicles. The Atkinson cycle has more compression on the power stroke than it does on the compression stroke by leaving the intake valve open longer. The net effect is more fuel efficiency at the cost of low end torque.

In a hybrid powertrain, the loss of torque is made up for with an electric motor. I wonder if that's how they do it in iForce Max... an Atkinson cycle capable engine with the electric assist when needed. The iForce (Non Max) wouldn't be able to utilize the Atkinson cycle since it would be gutless on the low end.

 

[Nuke]

I was doing some more research on this. Toyota has been using Atkinson cycle engines on some hybrid vehicles. The Atkinson cycle has more compression on the power stroke than it does on the compression stroke by leaving the intake valve open longer. The net effect is more fuel efficiency at the cost of low end torque.

In a hybrid powertrain, the loss of torque is made up for with an electric motor. I wonder if that's how they do it in iForce Max... an Atkinson cycle capable engine with the electric assist when needed. The iForce (Non Max) wouldn't be able to utilize the Atkinson cycle since it would be gutless on the low end.

I would call it more of a "simulated" Atkinson Cycle, using variable valve timing, but it certainly does help. So, you pose a great question, does the hybrid assist at the low end when needed to achieve better economy, not just power? Over my pay grade, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Hey, you may talk me into a hybrid before all is said and done. Speaking of hybrids, have you noticed that specific hybrid system, in the Tacoma, LC, and even the Lexus GX550, has been delayed across the board? I sure hope it is a supply chain problem, and not design issues that are being worked out.

 

[Paint]

Toyota has said many times that this hybrid setup is NOT for efficiency (although it does help in that department), it is all about making more power for low end grunt and towing.

But even the lowest numbers in this thread are close to double what my Tundra gets, so above 20 is like a dream for me. So I'm really intrigued about what this setup is gonna do.

 

[Nuke]

Toyota has said many times that this hybrid setup is NOT for efficiency (although it does help in that department), it is all about making more power for low end grunt and towing.

But even the lowest numbers in this thread are close to double what my Tundra gets, so above 20 is like a dream for me. So I'm really intrigued about what this setup is

Do you own a V8 Tundra?

 

[APIOQM]

The Limited Tacoma with full-time 4WD gets 23 MPG highway. I think we can expect a few more MPG from the hybrid setup, which should get roughly the same MPG city, for an average of 25-26ish, not far off Toyota’s estimates. I believe iForce MAX does not use Atkinson Cycle. I believe the system will be tuned for more efficiency than on the Tundra/Sequoia, just based on their MPG estimate.

 

[TLC]

The Limited Tacoma with full-time 4WD gets 23 MPG highway. I think we can expect a few more MPG from the hybrid setup, which should get roughly the same MPG city, for an average of 25-26ish, not far off Toyota’s estimates. I believe iForce MAX does not use Atkinson Cycle. I believe the system will be tuned for more efficiency than on the Tundra/Sequoia, just based on their MPG estimate.

This makes a lot of sense. The sticker will probably end up with 25 City / 25 Highway / 25 Combined. I'd be happy with that.

 

[supersix]

This makes a lot of sense. The sticker will probably end up with 25 City / 25 Highway / 25 Combined. I'd be happy with that.

My guess would be something similar, and that's so much better then my current 4runner, I'll be extremely happy. Not to mention quite a bit more power!

 

[Paint]

Do you own a V8 Tundra?

I do. It's averaged 12.9 MPG over about 165k miles (I hand calculate every tank). I knew that going in, and it doesn't really bother me. The only part of it that bugs me, is the limited range. I hate stopping all the time to fill up LOL

 

[Nuke]

I do. It's averaged 12.9 MPG over about 165k miles (I hand calculate every tank). I knew that going in, and it doesn't really bother me. The only part of it that bugs me, is the limited range. I hate stopping all the time to fill up LOL

Thanks! Well then, I will not feel so bad if I spring for a GX550 over the LC. It will probably squeeze out a real 20 MPG on the open road.

 

[APIOQM]

Keep in mind too that the Sequoia is around 1000 lb heavier than the LC250 with heavier driveline components, so the hybrid system will go a longer way on the LC250.

 

[Nuke]

Keep in mind too that the Sequoia is around 1000 lb heavier than the LC250 with heavier driveline components, so the hybrid system will go a longer way on the LC250.

Surprisingly, it appears there will only be about a 200 lb difference. Roughly 5600 for the LC, and 5800 for the Sequoia. Based on the weight of the GX550, as not sure the curb weight of the LC is available?

 

[APIOQM]

Surprisingly, it appears there will only be about a 200 lb difference. Roughly 5600 for the LC, and 5800 for the Sequoia. Based on the weight of the GX550, as not sure the curb weight of the LC is available?

5800 lb must be for the RWD Sequoia? The 4X4 appears to be over 6,000 lb. Still, not a 1000 lb difference, so I stand corrected.

 

[Nuke]

5800 lb must be for the RWD Sequoia? The 4X4 appears to be over 6,000 lb. Still, not a 1000 lb difference, so I stand corrected.

The GX is definitely heavier than I would have thought. And, the LC being all hybrid, may gain a few more pounds? Can we equate weight to strength/durability? Hope so!

 

[TLC]

I wonder if the LC could land around 5000-5200 lbs? The 4-Runner is 4400 - 4800 lbs. Add a hybrid battery and motor and you're in around 5k. That could be light enough for 25 mpg combined.

 

[doolin64]

24mpg combined would make me happy. I'm currently average 23.2mpg in my hybrid F150 over the last 16k miles. I'm hoping not to go back in the other direction.

 

[FarooqMCSE]

News from Texas, released February 20th, 2024
price of 1958 $55,950
available Spring 2024
EPA combined 23 mpg
5 USB C ports
6 speakers
Premium package is:
1)leather seats, heated, ventilated
2)power front seats
3)14 JBL speakers
4)premium audio
5)digital rearview mirror
6)head up display
7)illuminated entry
8)power moonroof
9)center console coolbox
10)2 more USB C type ports in cargo area